Per Fight Encounter

[zerume]

Hey guys, so in Azor's thread there used to be a section for what spec was considered the best on a fight per fight basis. I tried asking in the old thread, but it seems to have no response. So I just wanted to see what people think should be used on each fight.

And as a side note if anyone understands how Azor's explosive trap script/macro works, and if they could explain in detail how so.

[Littlepinch]

Really depends what jobs you are doing within the raid.

Going in the stands ? Go Sv/Bm
Not going in stands ? Go MM and pew pew ur heart out

Stack person on Butcher? Play what you like really but i use BM on this one for some extra mitigation with roar of sacrifice ( the moving in and out doesn't hinder any of our specs dps really ) Using Aspect of the Fox when getting knocked back helps

Lots of Target switching with high hp adds ? go MM

For the most part now all 3 of our specs are pretty close, So play what you like/enjoy more.

Hope some of this helped. Cheers

[Deleted]

Really depends what jobs you are doing within the raid.

Going in the stands ? Go Sv/Bm
Not going in stands ? Go MM and pew pew ur heart out

Stack person on Butcher? Play what you like really but i use BM on this one for some extra mitigation with roar of sacrifice ( the moving in and out doesn't hinder any of our specs dps really ) Using Aspect of the Fox when getting knocked back helps

Lots of Target switching with high hp adds ? go MM

For the most part now all 3 of our specs are pretty close, So play what you like/enjoy more.

Hope some of this helped. Cheers

You what now? i dont think you know what roar of sacrifice does.

Protects a friendly target from critical strikes, making attacks against that target unable to be critical strikes, but 20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet. Lasts 12 sec.

its only protects the target from critical strikes, and since butcher never will crit anyone its just pointless. And makes your pet take more damage for no reason.

[Littlepinch]

You what now? i dont think you know what roar of sacrifice does.



its only protects the target from critical strikes, and since butcher never will crit anyone its just pointless. And makes your pet take more damage for no reason.

I think you missed a part there bud but 20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet. Lasts 12 sec

you cast it on the tank and 20% of his dmg taken goes to the pet. So yes i do know how it works. The not critting part of the skilldoes not even concern me.

Maybe you should read 2 times before posting

Each and every time i cast it on my tank over 12 sec my pet takes about 100k off the tank So please keep telling me i'm wrong.

Also at no point during any fight is my pet even close to death ( Hint* his hp pool is bigger then mine )

[Waylay73]

From the old Azor guide (from memory) it was Kargath/Butcher are Surv/MM depending on your gear, either one is suitable. Brackenspore was MM to burst adds. Tectus was Surv, Twins was Surv (use Arcane Shot to double dot, do not multi shot), Koragh it was MM and Imperator it was Surv, unless you need to burst adds then MM.

A lot of it will be raid dependent. A lot of people are recommending Survival for Tectus. But in my raid, we have zero problem with sustained AOE, and seem to have problems with burst. So I swapped to Marks and it helped the raid substantially. The same thing for Butcher, Surv does better dps, but MM can be better for the last 30%. With Kill Shot and Rapid Fire MM does more dps in that last phase. You should be comfortable with both specs and switch to whichever one best helps overcome your particular raid shortcomings.

[Littlepinch]

From the old Azor guide (from memory) it was Kargath/Butcher are Surv/MM depending on your gear, either one is suitable. Brackenspore was MM to burst adds. Tectus was Surv, Twins was Surv (use Arcane Shot to double dot, do not multi shot), Koragh it was MM and Imperator it was Surv, unless you need to burst adds then MM.

A lot of it will be raid dependent. A lot of people are recommending Survival for Tectus. But in my raid, we have zero problem with sustained AOE, and seem to have problems with burst. So I swapped to Marks and it helped the raid substantially. The same thing for Butcher, Surv does better dps, but MM can be better for the last 30%. With Kill Shot and Rapid Fire MM does more dps in that last phase. You should be comfortable with both specs and switch to whichever one best helps overcome your particular raid shortcomings.

Just echoing this, pretty accurate ( Good memory )

[zerume]

Thanks, by the sounds of it I will probably stick with MM for the most part then. We are working on heroic Koragh at the moment. Would it be better to go SV if we do not have a lot of magic damage? I am also first to start soaking orbs.

Does anyone know what your suppose to do with the scrip for explosive shot to launch without clicking your mouse?

[Hogarr]

Word to the wise, do not go survival for progression. Both mm and bm have much better tool kits.

[Teucer]

edit: Looks like he added boss specific specs now.

Word to the wise, do not go survival for progression. Both mm and bm have much better tool kits.

This is not true. Examples: Magic damage on Kor, high movement and better cleave capabilities than BM on Twins.

On topic, here is what you're looking for specifically:

Boss specific (Mythic):

Kargath MM: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf
Kargath BM: Dire Beast, Crows, Barrage, Adaptation
Kargath SV: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf

Butcher (all specs): Single-target talents above.

Tectus MM: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf
Tectus BM: Dire Beast, Blink Strikes, Barrage, Adaptation
Tectus SV: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf

Brackenspore MM: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf
Brackenspore BM: Dire Beast, Blink Strikes, Barrage, Adaptation
Brackenspore SV: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf

Twin Ogron MM: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf
Twin Ogron BM: Dire Beast, Blink Strikes, Barrage, Adaptation
Twin Ogron SV: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf

Ko'ragh MM: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf
Ko'ragh BM: Dire Beast, Blink Strikes, Barrage, Adaptation
Ko'ragh SV: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf

Imperator Mar'gok MM: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf
Imperator Mar'gok BM: Dire Beast, Blink Strikes, Barrage, Adaptation
Imperator Mar'gok SV: Thrill, Crows, Barrage, Lone Wolf

I don't think this accurately reflects what Azor has up there now though with Focusing shot simming higher than LW for fights with Barrage usage.

And two posts by Effin and Azor based on which spec to play for each fight: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post31217487 (The opinion seems to have changed based on the current guide)

I disagree with the Kargath priority there, but I believe thats based around our strat of immuning the beserking rush and closing pillars, barely have to move as MM.

[Deleted]

I think you missed a part there bud but 20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet. Lasts 12 sec

you cast it on the tank and 20% of his dmg taken goes to the pet. So yes i do know how it works. The not critting part of the skilldoes not even concern me.

Maybe you should read 2 times before posting

Each and every time i cast it on my tank over 12 sec my pet takes about 100k off the tank So please keep telling me i'm wrong.

Also at no point during any fight is my pet even close to death ( Hint* his hp pool is bigger then mine )

no its you that have not read what it actually says.

Protects a friendly target from critical strikes, making attacks against that target unable to be critical strikes, but 20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet. Lasts 12 sec.

Its NOT 20% damage reduction. Its your pet taking 20% of the damage the target of sac takes to compensate for being immune to crits. Hence its useless.
Always been like this.

[jpthepope]

I think you missed a part there bud but 20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet. Lasts 12 sec

you cast it on the tank and 20% of his dmg taken goes to the pet. So yes i do know how it works. The not critting part of the skilldoes not even concern me.

Maybe you should read 2 times before posting

Each and every time i cast it on my tank over 12 sec my pet takes about 100k off the tank So please keep telling me i'm wrong.

Also at no point during any fight is my pet even close to death ( Hint* his hp pool is bigger then mine )

If i am not mistaken your pet is taking extra damage while mitigating none of it. It transfers an extra 20% damage while preventing crits. An easy way to test this (which people at wowhead were kind enough to already do) is get into a fight use it on yourself and see if the same skill is reduced by it Ie pally uses judgement it hits for 1k, use roar of sac, pally uses judgement it should hit for 1k again but your pet should take 200 damage.

[BananaHandsB]

If i am not mistaken your pet is taking extra damage while mitigating none of it. It transfers an extra 20% damage while preventing crits. An easy way to test this (which people at wowhead were kind enough to already do) is get into a fight use it on yourself and see if the same skill is reduced by it Ie pally uses judgement it hits for 1k, use roar of sac, pally uses judgement it should hit for 1k again but your pet should take 200 damage.

This is essentially correct. Basically your pet takes 20% of the target of Roar's dmg without actually mitigating it. That's why the tooltip is worded:

Protects a friendly target from critical strikes, making attacks against that target unable to be critical strikes, but 20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet.

and not

Protects a friendly target from critical strikes, making attacks against that target unable to be critical strikes, but 20% of all damage taken by that target is instead taken by the pet.

or

Protects a friendly target from critical strikes, making attacks against that target unable to be critical strikes, but 20% of all damage taken by that target is split by the pet.

For example soul link actually mitigates that dmg and is worded:

20% of all damage taken is split with your demon pet, and 3% of damage you deal heals you and your demon.

The wording is a little confusing, but it makes sense.

[jpthepope]

I dont think the wording is confusing at all. Even so I am more surprised any hunter would take their pets and not put them on ferocity for raids.

[Dhryke]

I dont think the wording is confusing at all. Even so I am more surprised any hunter would take their pets and not put them on ferocity for raids.

Adaptation

[jpthepope]

Adaptation

sorry, you are correct. MMO-C has been on MM/SV's d that thought crossed my mind about bm. Thanks man

[Waylay73]

sorry, you are correct. MMO-C has been on MM/SV's dick that thought crossed my mind about bm. Thanks man

Because except for Tectus, and stand duty on Kargath, MM/SV are easily ahead of BM at the moment. Plenty of people would love to be on BM's "dick" if it was equal.

[Hogarr]

This is not true. Examples: Magic damage on Kor, high movement and better cleave capabilities than BM on Twins.

For Progression,
There are going to very few hunters playing Survival. Twin Ogron is really the only fight it is hands down better on, but everything else it's really only padded damage and not necessarily as effective for you raid as a whole.

Strongly recommend keeping your specs as MM/BM (For Progression, Farm you can do whatever)

Kargath - Stands BM/Downstairs MM - If you're looking to cheese a bit, snipe Tigers down during CA and KS phases
Twin Ogron - MM/BM doesn't matter, BM is a little more mobile and the fight has a bit of movement, but MM is just as good, good planning can keep you at 90+ ST uptime
Tectus - BM by a wide margin, burst AoE cleave is king here
Brackenspore - MM, lots of little adds to snipe/burn, lot of KS opportunities, FT buff only buffs you further
Korgah - MM, for bursting down MCs, Little Adds, and extra KS on boss
Butcher - MM - if for nothing else because you do insane DPS from 35% on which is the hardest part of the fight
Morgok - Both specs have a place.


Survival relies heavily upon tight focus management, movement management, keeping adds up for 10-15 seconds, and it brings no utility (No CDs, No Execute, etc) It's just an inferior progression spec.

- - - Updated - - -

The other important thing to remember is that sims are just sims. You should play what you are most comfortable with. If you suck at MM and you're doing 2-3k less than what you're simming but you play Survival or BM on point, you should play the spec you are best at.

[Deleted]

I think you missed a part there bud but 20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet. Lasts 12 sec

you cast it on the tank and 20% of his dmg taken goes to the pet. So yes i do know how it works. The not critting part of the skilldoes not even concern me.

Maybe you should read 2 times before posting

Each and every time i cast it on my tank over 12 sec my pet takes about 100k off the tank So please keep telling me i'm wrong.

Also at no point during any fight is my pet even close to death ( Hint* his hp pool is bigger then mine )

No, the 20% do not get mitigated. The pet takes it in addition. "20% of all damage taken by that target is also taken by the pet". Read Warlock's Soul Link tooltip and you will notice the difference. Or just go test it in a duel. Why do you think Roar of Sacrifice has such a weird crit suppression mitigation? It's because they don't want it to be used as a tank cooldown.

// Looks like I skipped a post above that already explained it pretty well. Apologies.

[Hogarr]

Pure Single Target Sims for each spec, posted by Effin recently; as you can see they are very close - the only reason I'd put Survival behind the other two specs is that FS is much harder to use correctly when learning new encounters. In 95% of cases, people will mess up at least 1-2 FS casts on a fight during progression attempts and that will lose them a lot of DPS. BM has no loss for movement, and MM's is fairly low unless you are 10%+ mastery.
MM:

BM:

SV:


On Multi Target fights the numbers go more in favor of BM and Survival but as I said before, BM is just more useful...Beast cleave is more effective DPS in cleave situations than SrS (except Twins) and it has 2 solid cooldowns + an execute. It's just going to be better in a lot of cases.

[Littlepinch]

My apologies, i guess i'm the one who needs to brush up on their reading.

We were having tank deaths and i was trying to find anyway to help my tanks from dropping face first on the floor. I guess it was wishful thinking.

Saw what i wanted to see