Need your advice, got even more confused if i should play combat or sublety as main

[michaeljackson]

Hey guys,

i got really lucky with my highmaul mystic raid mission and got a mystic warforged captive microabr.
Before the rogue bladeflurry multistrike "hotfix" and the haste buff, i played sub as my main spec and
changed it to combat for tectus, brackenspore and imp.
after the haste buff and the fix to BF, the cookie started slowly to crumble. now that i got the mystic
warforged captive microabr. i'm seriously starting to change my mind on playing combat as main spec.
Edit: my weapons as sub are 2x 660 arena daggers

here is my armory link: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nfire/advanced


1st question: should i play combat or sub as my main spec?
2nd question: is the mystic warforged captive microabr. better than the coin as a sub rogue?
3 question: which weapon enchants are the best for combat rogues?

[Xavv]

Firstly, It's Mythic. Not Mystic.

Having that trinket isn't enough to make you swap from one spec or another, weapon availability should be the deciding factor there.

If anything you should be using the Abberation with the Lucky Coin trinket for Sub spec, as you don't appear to have 670 weapons for either spec.
Really you should be using the Scales of Doom + Coin anyway, as the MS proc from Scales has a big impact on Sub play. If you don't have access to the Lucky Coin the WF Abberation is a fine alternative.


In general you should just play what you enjoy playing or can produce the most damage as.

[T18Z]

Firstly, It's Mythic. Not Mystic.

Having that trinket isn't enough to make you swap from one spec or another, weapon availability should be the deciding factor there.

If anything you should be using the Abberation with the Lucky Coin trinket for Sub spec, as you don't appear to have 670 weapons for either spec.
Really you should be using the Scales of Doom + Coin anyway, as the MS proc from Scales has a big impact on Sub play. If you don't have access to the Lucky Coin the WF Abberation is a fine alternative.


In general you should just play what you enjoy playing or can produce the most damage as.

Shadowcraft puts it at -264 dps for my character, and this is replacing a normal abberation with multistrike socket.

Assuming it is being undervalued, are there any numbers to support it anywhere that I can read beside anecdotal?

[Deleted]

If you are unsure what to play, I'd suggest sticking to Combat because it's fairly straightforward spec that doesn't require you to watch as much things as when playing Subtlety.

[Noxina]

Think the sims got a hard time really simming the Lucky Coin though. So if I am not mistaken, people here (and other forums) have stated that the Lucky Coin is BiS all the way into BRF, just because that 1.4k agi you get on use works so darn nice with CDs.

[Deleted]

Shadowcraft puts it at -264 dps for my character, and this is replacing a normal abberation with multistrike socket.

Assuming it is being undervalued, are there any numbers to support it anywhere that I can read beside anecdotal?

Simcraft, you can go to Ryme's thread to see numbers and download simcraft to try it yourself. The reason shadowcraft undervalues all use-trinkets is because it doesn't align them with CDs.

[shaithis]

I'll make it even more complicated for you -

Combat or Subt on Kargath
Subt on Butcher
Combat or Assn on Brack
Combat or Assn on Rectus (Combat or Subt on Mythic)
Combat or Assn on Twins
Subt on Koragh
Your pick on Impregnator

[Athonel]

I'll make it even more complicated for you -

Combat or Subt on Kargath
Subt on Butcher
Combat or Assn on Brack
Combat or Assn on Rectus (Combat or Subt on Mythic)
Combat or Assn on Twins
Subt on Koragh
Your pick on Impregnator

If you're on add duty on any boss, combat is definitely your top choice.

That being said, if you have had horrible luck with a dagger (I'm 7/7 heroic and I just replaced my blue dagger with the grandiose...QQ) but you have heroic axes off twins, then you may be best served to go combat for everything. Sub with a crap dagger (and mostly haste gear...lol highmaul) is only going to be marginally better (1-2k dps) on ST fights for quite a bit more work. Combat is more forgiving for sure.

[T18Z]

Simcraft, you can go to Ryme's thread to see numbers and download simcraft to try it yourself. The reason shadowcraft undervalues all use-trinkets is because it doesn't align them with CDs.

Where am I supposed to be looking? On the trinket analysis abberation mythic is ahead by a hair, where as on the outdated highmaul bis list the coin is in place. I can't try it myself because I don't have the coin, so I can't swap it in/out and I'm not sure how to add in items I haven't obtained in-game.

Are these the numbers you were referring too?

[Deleted]

Where am I supposed to be looking? On the trinket analysis abberation mythic is ahead by a hair, where as on the outdated highmaul bis list the coin is in place. I can't try it myself because I don't have the coin, so I can't swap it in/out and I'm not sure how to add in items I haven't obtained in-game.

Are these the numbers you were referring too?

"numbers" depend on what gear you have and how long the fight is, but if you want to see some, just download simcraft and run it with ryme's optimized profile, and change trinkets to see how they differ.

[michaeljackson]

Firstly, It's Mythic. Not Mystic.

Having that trinket isn't enough to make you swap from one spec or another, weapon availability should be the deciding factor there.

If anything you should be using the Abberation with the Lucky Coin trinket for Sub spec, as you don't appear to have 670 weapons for either spec.
Really you should be using the Scales of Doom + Coin anyway, as the MS proc from Scales has a big impact on Sub play. If you don't have access to the Lucky Coin the WF Abberation is a fine alternative.


In general you should just play what you enjoy playing or can produce the most damage as.

thanks man, u were right. the trinkets were indeed not enough to focus on one spec. i just kept my enchants and affixes on those 670 crafted items to pull out the most dmg as a sub rogue (multi+mastery)

played sub rogue on kargath,butcher and koragh (still no dagger after the 4th hc id + tons of tokens)
played combat rogue on all other bosses

results: the recent buffs and the affix on the 690 ring are amazing. cant complain anymore

[Larinnian]

3 question: which weapon enchants are the best for combat rogues?

Mark of the Warsong

[michaeljackson]

Mark of the Warsong

simulationcraft gives me a marginal dps increase when i am using mark of warsong on my mh and shattered hand on my offhand.
i already enchanted both weapons with mark of warsong but i am still wondering which is best.

[Athonel]

simulationcraft gives me a marginal dps increase when i am using mark of warsong on my mh and shattered hand on my offhand.
i already enchanted both weapons with mark of warsong but i am still wondering which is best.

If you are purchasing the enchants off the AH, I would say they're too expensive to just randomly decide to change away from Warsong. If you are an enchanter or have friends/guildies doing it for free, then go for it.

[Marema]

So if I'm only playing assassination and am consistently in the top 1-3 in dps in heroic fights what should I do? There's a couple of elitists in my guild and when they found out I was assassination they almost had an aneurism since the other 2 specs sim a little ahead.

I prefer assassination and feel I'm pretty good at it, even in multi target fights since I can roll rupture on 3-5 targets pretty easily. I should look into sims and see what it would say my dps should be and then I can compare it to what it actually is.

[Noxina]

I'd say keep on playing Assassination, if you are among top 1-3 in dps, and if you guys got a DPS problem, then it is clearly not you.

I honestly don't understand why people say it is that bad. After I tested it this week, I have totally fallen in love with it, and I do top meters quite often with it (cleaving with rupture is just so good). And I love to have an execute phase! Always missed that on my rogue after maining Paladin for so long.
But yeah, I might pull 1-2k more dps as Sub on some of the fights, but as long as I am at the same level as my other dps' in my raid I am fine where I am.

What is the best weapon enchant for Assassin btw? Just rocking 2xShattered Hand now.

And is Shadowcraft SimC viable? Because I simmed like 27k dps there, and pull 28k(ST)-32k(Cleave, the more the higher dps) on most fights.

[Searstout]

I had the same issue last week, l found myself switching between sub and combat for every boss in Highmaul in order to find out which spec is right for me. In the end l favoured combat over sub purely because of playstyle and my requirements during raids. In response to OPs questions;

1 - Unfortunately no-one can or should tell you what spec to main - it's entirely up to your playstyle. I myself don't like the feel of sub over combat so that's what essentially pushed me over to main combat. IMO Combat is much more efficient in Highmaul than sub considering the amount of viable "cleave" strats for a number of bosses (Brackenspore, Tectus, Twins, Imp, even Ko'ragh). Main what you feel more comfortable with - that being said when Blackrock Foundry is released, l think Sub will perform well considering the amount of multistrike on loot.

2 - Xavv explained the trinket comparison well.

3 - Mark of the Warsong for Combat. What I've done though is enchanted my MH with Mark of the Frostwolf (multi) since l switch between Combat and Sub now and then.

If you want to switch between Combat and Sub l suggest stacking Multistrike considering it's the best stat for Sub and the second best for Combat.

[Maelstrom51]

Mark of the Warsong

On 2+ targets frostwolf is superior. If you're mainly only combat for cleave fights you might be better off using that.

[Warstar]

If you're doing mythic butcher pretty much have to go sub. Otherwise all fights are combat friendly. Kargath I tend to do sub although bladeflurry up top is nice.

[Sesleri]

On 2+ targets frostwolf is superior. If you're mainly only combat for cleave fights you might be better off using that.

Wow you're right, looks like multistrike is ahead of haste in cleave situations for combat now. That's awesome!