Druid tank on mythic butcher

[walterwhite]

Just wanted to check, maybe i'm doing something fundamentaly wrong or...

I take ALOT more dmg then the pally tank

logs:
warcraftlogs.com/reports/2fzhaLvRWcMq1HJY/#type=damage-taken&fight=42

[Farseer]

Just a very quick look: it seems over 50% of your damage taken comes from Heavy Handed (Heavy Handed passively causes all of The Butcher's auto attacks to trigger a second attack on the next closest target within 5 yards of the main target. If no such target exists, then the primary target is struck by this second attack as well).

Was the paladin tank properly stacked with you when you had the boss' aggro?

[Brael]

Nothing to do with them not being stacked if you look at overall the difference is probably just due to the paladins AM being superior to a druids for this.. are you keeping SD up while not tanking the boss? Can't remember if it's Tenderizer or Heavy Handed hits that cannot be dodged/parried.

Either way it's quite easy for a druid/warrior to sometimes forget to use their own mitigation while not actively tanking the boss.

[Deleted]

Nothing to do with them not being stacked if you look at overall the difference is probably just due to the paladins AM being superior to a druids for this.. are you keeping SD up while not tanking the boss? Can't remember if it's Tenderizer or Heavy Handed hits that cannot be dodged/parried.

Either way it's quite easy for a druid/warrior to sometimes forget to use their own mitigation while not actively tanking the boss.

Tenderizer cannot be dodged/parried, but only applies this to current tank and is the tank swap mechanic. Heavy Handed hits can be dodged so can The Reaver preventing stacks of that bleed, however it is not possible to keep SD up for all of these but should be kept up as much as possible also when not actively tanking.

Our healers also had a tendency to not heal the tank that was not tanking as much, both tanks will take roughly equal damage regardless if tanking or not, only difference being applications of The Reaver & Tenderizer on active tank.

[Deleted]

You can get BoP'd when you're not tanking to completely negate the heavy handed damage, cutting your damage intake quite heavily.

[Fafhrd]

Try to maximize Savage Defense uptime to about 35-40%. Pulverize uptime is good. That said even with perfect defensive rotation you will take about 15-20% more net damage than a good paladin, and do about 50-75% of his dps. I'm pretty despondent about the current state of bears, and gearing up a blood DK for the last three mythic bosses.

[Deleted]

Over 37 wipes, you only used 30 armor potions in total, that should be 74 (gives you both more dmg and less damage taken, not the most but still a bit).
I took wipes 37/32/30/31/26 to look at since most were pretty long.
2/4 wipes at ~3:50 you only used 1 berserk, that's a lot of rage helping you survive and more damage.
your pulverize uptimes were pretty good, but could be a lot better. in wipe 26 it only dropped off for a short time in the middle of the fight, otherwise it was up from the start which is good.
for 37/32/30 it was only upf or around 78%, dropping off several times, sometimes for longer periods during the fight (possibly during the knockback, but if you reapply before he charges away till be up for when he comes back and hits you, instead of dropping it).
your savage defense uptime is horrible, on wipe 32 it was at 12.54%, with 5 usages only. SD can be used 5 times every minute, which ideally would give it a 50% uptime, but thats not really realistic, you should be aiming for atleast 40%+ imo, whicih you werent even close to, 1 wipe was at 30%, 1 at 28%, the other 3 at 12/20/20~ which is pretty bad, especially on mythic.
and for some reason, youre not even keeping trash up at all, thats quite a bit of rage missed also.

[Casagrande]

Work on SD uptime, in particular try to have it up for Cleaver (dodging the attack means you don't get the dot), but don't waste charges by letting it sit at 2. Don't waste SD uptime by having it up during bounding cleave. If you have the rage, use tooth and claw procs rather than frenzied regen. It's both more efficient in terms of damage per rage, and makes you less spiky. Pre-pot consistently, they're cheap. Second pot below 30%, you should try to have as many CDs up for this part as possible, and call for external CDs as well (sac, vigi, pain sup, etc.). At that point it's all about living until the next bounding cleave, then you get a break for a few seconds.

Here's a log where I believe I did all of this correctly, and took about 10k DPS less partially as a result. My gear is also better, but I think most of the difference is SD. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...c1hJ7F#fight=5

No matter how perfectly you play you're still going to take a lot more damage, require a lot more healing, and deal a lot less damage than other tanks. That's something only Blizzard can fix. Compare yourself to other bears, not other tanks.

[Dreyen]

Yea.. 19% uptime on SD is what's destroying you, the max potential uptime for SD is 50% and with the charge system you can be very close to this. Even when you're not tanking, you can avoid heavy handed hits.

Only 17 trinket uses out of 37 pulls too, should be way more than that

[Deleted]

Just wanted to check, maybe i'm doing something fundamentaly wrong or...

I take ALOT more dmg then the pally tank

logs:
warcraftlogs.com/reports/2fzhaLvRWcMq1HJY/#type=damage-taken&fight=42

Not to take anything away from the advice you've been given but the same thing is happening for other Bears, just taking the top 4 for comparison: 8 v 9.5, 8.5 v 12.5, 9.6 v 12.4, 10 v 13.6 million damage taken (first 3 were Warriors and the last a DK).

So don't worry that you're taking more damage but do focus on understanding where it's important for you to have those abilities running to give your healers enough time to react.

[exochaft]

So don't worry that you're taking more damage but do focus on understanding where it's important for you to have those abilities running to give your healers enough time to react.

To expand on this, cooldown usage is all over the place, leading me to believe most of it is reactive versus proactive. It's not necessarily the total amount of damage a Guardian takes but rather when they take it. The most dangerous time is likely going to be when the Tenderizer debuff gets applied, but fortunately the timing is very predictable, allowing the use of a damage reduction CD for the applications.

Keep in mind that the encounter is going to be roughly four minutes long, so it may be beneficial to use stronger CD's more often as they'll be back up again. Barkskin is a 1min CD, and some attempts it wasn't even used at all or very underutilized. Same thing can be said for Cenarion Ward with a 30 second CD, as it can be used very often to line up with expected damage spikes for nice results (versus the average of less than twice per fight).

While I think using SD more has been driven home by previous posts, I'm also looking at the FR usage in conjunction with SD casts. I understand it's a pretty damaging encounter, but there was waaaaaaay too much usage of FR (might explain lack of SD uptime). If FR was being used as a substitute for SD, then that needs to be fixed immediately. Personally I've used 2-3 FR's max on mythic Butcher kills, and I make sure that SD takes priority unless there's a really big emergency... although I generally save my healthpot for those situations.

[walterwhite]

Thank you all for helpful and good pointers.
(a) exochaft You are right i was using CDs reactively and panic healing with FR

Last night i was keeping SD up betwean 35-40% and dmg intake has good down. We had few 15% wipes and 1 5% wipe, he should die next reset