What is the real issue with Evolve's DLC?

[Kanadei]

Unable to. Most of these people are just haters.

Haters gonna hate.

It would be a lot simpler if I believed that, but from what I've seen in this thread most people are happy to have an intellectual discussion about justifying their actions one way or another.

Some people aren't, either because they are unwilling to or simply not interested enough to put the effort in. Which is fine, it just doesn't really add anything one way or another.

[IIamaKing]

I remember a time when you bought a game and you got the whole game.

[Kanadei]

pricing, amount of dlc on a bare bones game.. and all this on day one. that IMO makes it not worth it.. and im not going to support shitty business practices like those.

So, to boil down your argument to four points (which have been discussed previously and by all means you have a right to believe in):

1. There is too much DLC
2. There is not enough content
3. There is day one DLC
4. This constitutes unethical business practices


Would that be a fair interpretation of your issues?

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I remember a time when you bought a game and you got the whole game.

It's amazing that someone with the signature "READ and be less Ignorant.[sic]" could come up with such an asinine comment.

You do get the whole game. You get all the maps, game modes and characters. You just have the option to get additional costumes if so inclined (which realistically, I'd assume most of us aren't).

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

It would be a lot simpler if I believed that, but from what I've seen in this thread most people are happy to have an intellectual discussion about justifying their actions one way or another.

Some people aren't, either because they are unwilling to or simply not interested enough to put the effort in. Which is fine, it just doesn't really add anything one way or another.

Eh, is what it is.

I personally love the game. Already got 50 hours out of it which is a lot more than a lot of these other titles people hold up as icons of the industry.

Oh noes, they withheld colorzzzz to try and make money for the free content people will end up getting. HOW DARE THEY?!

[Deleted]

So, to boil down your argument to four points (which have been discussed previously and by all means you have a right to believe in):

1. There is too much DLC
2. There is not enough content
3. There is day one DLC
4. This constitutes unethical business practices


Would that be a fair interpretation of your issues?

.

i guess so.. would i think the same about the game if it were free to play? probably not.

[IIamaKing]

It's amazing that someone with the signature "READ and be less Ignorant.[sic]" could come up with such an asinine comment.

You do get the whole game. You get all the maps, game modes and characters. You just have the option to get additional costumes if so inclined (which realistically, I'd assume most of us aren't).

Did Golden Eye Gate skins for MP behind a pay wall? If I buy a full priced game I expect to be able to unlock all skins, costumes, guns, pets, pixels by playing the game. If the dev wants to milk customers further by allowing you to pay to get cosmetics faster I can live with that. Nothing ignorant about having a different opinion btw, there might be ignorance in acting like yours is the only one that matters though.

If you can unlock all these skins in game w/o paying more money I see no problem. If they are pay wall exclusive, game can kick rocks IMO.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

i guess so.. would i think the same about the game if it were free to play? probably not.

...But the purchasable content doesn't come nearly even close enough to covering the immense costs of creating a game like Evolve.

You're being extremely unrealistic.

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Did Golden Eye Gate skins for MP behind a pay wall? If I buy a full priced game I expect to be able to unlock all skins, costumes, guns, pets, pixels by playing the game. If the dev wants to milk customers further by allowing you to pay to get cosmetics faster I can live with that. Nothing ignorant about having a different opinion btw, there might be ignorance in acting like yours is the only one that matters though.

If you can unlock all these skins in game w/o paying more money I see no problem. If they are pay wall exclusive, game can kick rocks IMO.

Golden Eye was also made during an era where game development wasn't INSANELY EXPENSIVE. Believe it or not, the reality of the industry is, as you advance your technology and the need for an ever-expanding team of developers your costs go up. Now if you want the game to be blocky little avatars battling it out, okay.

If you had actually played the game you'd realize just how daunting of a task it must of been to simply balance it out. That alone probably took tons and tons of testing and man hours to accomplish and that's before we get into the art design, engine construction, sound design, marketing, etc.

You're also getting future maps FOR FREE(which take a lot more work than traditional maps) and modes for that matter.

[Kanadei]

i guess so.. would i think the same about the game if it were free to play? probably not.

Well thats a related issue, but still a bit tangential to your original point.

Getting back to your issues which you have somewhat prescribed to, here is what I'd offer in rebuttal (which obviously you can take or leave, it's all opinion anyway).

1. The question of too much DLC has been raised repeatedly, which to me remains an arbitrary and dubious point. If it was 2 pieces of DLC would we be happy? One large expensive piece? 5/10/15/30? I know it's a lot, but that seems more of a packaging and pricing issue than it is a direct issue with the content. You, and others with this line of argument, never bring up the content of the DLC, only the amount of it, which I think is very telling.

2. This would have to be elaborated on. I think there is plenty of content for what the game was marketed as, is this an expectation issue or a pricing issue?

3. Day one DLC (we all hate it) is a problematic term here. They didn't gate characters or maps or game modes, just a few extra clothing packs which easily could have been designed after hte game was submitted for rating (and thus past the point at which you can alter the game). This is a real thing. There is no 'actual' (and that is my opinion) day one DLC, just a bunch of crappy clothing addons which you probably can't even notice when you play the game (I know I never have).

4. Once again, this is highly subjective. Is it unethical because they are charging full price and DLC? Your comment about free to play seems to indicate this. Would it then be ethical if the DLC had been released later on? Or there was less of it? Or is any DLC like this unethical because of the pricetag? Really you have to be more specific about what is acceptable and what isn't.

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Did Golden Eye Gate skins for MP behind a pay wall? If I buy a full priced game I expect to be able to unlock all skins, costumes, guns, pets, pixels by playing the game. If the dev wants to milk customers further by allowing you to pay to get cosmetics faster I can live with that. Nothing ignorant about having a different opinion btw, there might be ignorance in acting like yours is the only one that matters though.

If you can unlock all these skins in game w/o paying more money I see no problem. If they are pay wall exclusive, game can kick rocks IMO.

Golden Eye was made 20 years ago, I think it's safe to say it isn't a fair indicator of the current game market. It was created in an age before internet gaming even existed, skin packs would have been largely useless (within their current context and thus value).

Is your argument that DLC shouldn't exist entirely? Because that is a completely different argument and really isn't specific to Evolve (and so this discussion) at all.

As for your (and my) ignorant comment. I wasn't disregarding your opinion because it was different, I've been pretty accepting of different opinions in this thread if you go back and take a look. I was disregarding it because you chose to frame it in the most vapid and lazy way possible, with no explanation or visible thought process behind what you were saying.

You did the equivalent of going into a vaccination thread and saying "but only idiots get vaccines /thread" and I responded as such.

[IIamaKing]

Golden Eye was made 20 years ago, I think it's safe to say it isn't a fair indicator of the current game market. It was created in an age before internet gaming even existed, skin packs would have been largely useless (within their current context and thus value).

Is your argument that DLC shouldn't exist entirely? Because that is a completely different argument and really isn't specific to Evolve (and so this discussion) at all.

As for your (and my) ignorant comment. I wasn't disregarding your opinion because it was different, I've been pretty accepting of different opinions in this thread if you go back and take a look. I was disregarding it because you chose to frame it in the most vapid and lazy way possible, with no explanation or visible thought process behind what you were saying.

You did the equivalent of going into a vaccination thread and saying "but only idiots get vaccines /thread" and I responded as such.

I am fine with DLC. But the packaged game should not have paywall gated content on day one and any thing that is sold in a shop should be able to be unlocked via game play. This only applies to BTP titles ofc.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I am fine with DLC. But the packaged game should not have paywall gated content on day one and any thing that is sold in a shop should be able to be unlocked via game play. This only applies to BTP titles ofc.

Firstly, the DLC isn't gated and was used as promotional items for pre-orders at various locations. They were added to the store upon release for those that didn't get them and would still like to buy them.

Secondly, all of the day one stuff is color variations, basically. Hell, the best looking ones in my opinion are unlocked by mastering the characters you play.

You're honestly, no matter how you try to look at it, making a mountain out of an ant hill.

[Kanadei]

I am fine with DLC. But the packaged game should not have paywall gated content on day one and any thing that is sold in a shop should be able to be unlocked via game play. This only applies to BTP titles ofc.

So I guess what this boils down to (once again) is the definition of content.

I maintain that if you didn't know the DLC existed, there is nothing in the entire game experience to indicate anything exists behind a "pay wall" as you say. To me, that is how you know that there is no pay wall, because you honestly don't know it exists.

If there was a character or a map or something you couldn't use behind a paywall, we would be on exactly the same side.

That being said, it's 100% your prerogative to take issue with the payment structures of the games you purchase and I can't fault you for that.

But to use World of Wacraft as an example, there is plenty of "content" behind a paywall which can't be unlocked via gameplay in a BTP and subscription game - is this a huge issue for you as well?

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Firstly, the DLC isn't gated and was used as promotional items for pre-orders at various locations. They were added to the store upon release for those that didn't get them and would still like to buy them.

This, if accurate, is a really solid point which nobody has brought up until now.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

So I guess what this boils down to (once again) is the definition of content.

I maintain that if you didn't know the DLC existed, there is nothing in the entire game experience to indicate anything exists behind a "pay wall" as you say. To me, that is how you know that there is no pay wall, because you honestly don't know it exists.

If there was a character or a map or something you couldn't use behind a paywall, we would be on exactly the same side.

That being said, it's 100% your prerogative to take issue with the payment structures of the games you purchase and I can't fault you for that.

But to use World of Wacraft as an example, there is plenty of "content" behind a paywall which can't be unlocked via gameplay in a BTP and subscription game - is this a huge issue for you as well?

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This, if accurate, is a really solid point which nobody has brought up until now.

Yeah, let's be honest here. Warcraft is probably the biggest ripoff in the gaming industry right now and it gets less flack.

Priorities folks.

[Kanadei]

Yeah, let's be honest here. Warcraft is probably the biggest ripoff in the gaming industry right now and it gets less flack.

Priorities folks.

The only difference here I can see is that WoW's store wasn't around on day one.

And if that is the principal difference, and real issue here, then that is what the counter arguments should focus on, instead of diluting the argument with points about amount of content, publisher vs. developer, unethical practices and content gating.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

The only difference here I can see is that WoW's store wasn't around on day one.

And if that is the principal difference, and real issue here, then that is what the counter arguments should focus on, instead of diluting the argument with points about amount of content, publisher vs. developer, unethical practices and content gating.

Yeah, I guess it really does simply come down to 'day one' DLC.

WoW right now charges you 40-50 bucks an expansion. That's before they try and squeeze another 20 or so for silly in-game items from the "deluxe edition". Then they charge you 15 dollars a month to keep playing. Want to change factions? 30 dollars. Want to change race? 25 dollars. Want to change servers so you can play with your friends? 25 dollars.

To top it all off; purchasable mounts/pets/skins that are also extremely pricey. A cheat basically to boost your character. Talk about experience boosts as well.

...No one bitches.

Evolve has color variation skins that many got through pre-order promotions to begin with and everyone just loses their mind!

[Kanadei]

Evolve has color variation skins that many got through pre-order promotions to begin with and everyone just loses their mind!

FWIW I can honestly say I've never noticed anyone wearing a different skin throughout my 20+ hours of playing the game. Either no one is buying them, no one preordered or they are just so irrelevant that I can't tell at all.

Which is basically the crux of my argument right there.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

FWIW I can honestly say I've never noticed anyone wearing a different skin throughout my 20+ hours of playing the game. Either no one is buying them, no one preordered or they are just so irrelevant that I can't tell at all.

Which is basically the crux of my argument right there.

I got the game for 40 dollars by shopping around. Purchased skins for Caira and Parnell. So far I've spent 44 bucks on the game total.

I get the skins for myself. I know most people won't notice them unless spectating. The 'Ragnarok' one for Parnell is pretty swag.

[Kanadei]

I got the game for 40 dollars by shopping around. Purchased skins for Caira and Parnell. So far I've spent 44 bucks on the game total.

I get the skins for myself. I know most people won't notice them unless spectating. The 'Ragnarok' one for Parnell is pretty swag.

I honestly haven't even looked at them. But then, I don't really go in for that kind of thing. I played 1000 hours of DotA before buying anything and even then it was more because it was a 12$ set reduced to 39c or something (95% off I think it was) and I had some spare change in my steam wallet.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I honestly haven't even looked at them. But then, I don't really go in for that kind of thing. I played 1000 hours of DotA before buying anything and even then it was more because it was a 12$ set reduced to 39c or something (95% off I think it was) and I had some spare change in my steam wallet.

Oh lord...

I've spent literally thousands on LoL. Only to find myself a couple of years later utterly sick of it and playing Heroes of the Storm instead. xD

I'll probably still buy the DJ Sona skin just because I'm a Sona nut and need to have all of her skins.

[Kanadei]

Oh lord...

I've spent literally thousands on LoL. Only to find myself a couple of years later utterly sick of it and playing Heroes of the Storm instead. xD

I'll probably still buy the DJ Sona skin just because I'm a Sona nut and need to have all of her skins.

I grew up on DotA so LoL never really stuck for me. Playing one then the other is a bit like playing Sonic and then playing Mario right afterwards. They are similar games, but the pacing is different, the actions you take and when they are appropriate is different and the whole thing just feels a bit tilted from what you are used to.

I've heard the problems going from LoL to DotA are a bit more confronting though, I know there are a few aspects that make DotA a bit more technically challenging which take some adjusting to.

[IIamaKing]

Firstly, the DLC isn't gated and was used as promotional items for pre-orders at various locations. They were added to the store upon release for those that didn't get them and would still like to buy them.

Secondly, all of the day one stuff is color variations, basically. Hell, the best looking ones in my opinion are unlocked by mastering the characters you play.

You're honestly, no matter how you try to look at it, making a mountain out of an ant hill.

Not really, I have a differing opinion, I am not calling for the heads of any one, raging or anything of the sort only expressing how I feel about on disc/day one DLC.