Woman has baby cut out of her uterus by crazy woman

[Symphonic]

Did you hear about this? This is so terrible. A pregnant lady was about 2 months from her due date, and was looking for baby clothes. She found a craigslist ad and went to the place to buy the clothes. Then, the woman who was selling the clothes attacked her with a knife, cut open her tummy and cut the womb, and took the baby. The baby died, of course.

Here is the news article:

http://www.9news.com/story/news/crim...rime/25022919/

And the worst thing of all, is that *they probably won't file for murder charges against her*.

I quote:

Legal experts said that Colorado law is generally interpreted to only apply homicide if an act occurs against a person. In other words, the act that causes death needs to be committed after birth. If the act that killed the fetus took place before birth, murder charges would be unprecedented in Colorado.

What do you think? Is it murder? Or is it not murder? Right now it's just "Attempted murder" against the mother, and nothing about the baby.



--------UPDATED 27-3-15-------

She is not facing murder charges, even when the attacker's husband said he found the baby in the bathtub taking breaths. Sick and wrong.

[Shiny212]

Of course it isn't, attempted murder though as in cutting a person open, but no it would be wrong to charge her with murder.

[Symphonic]

Of course it isn't, attempted murder though as in cutting a person open, but no it would be wrong to charge her with murder.

Even though the baby was healthy and trying to breath after it was taken out of it's womb? At what point is an unborn baby "born" and considered a person to you? This baby didn't die until after it was born.

[Terridon]

Pretty sure it would be charged with myrder here. Though i guess that person would face trials as insane.
That really doesn't sound like something any sane person would ever do. Kill an annoying shopper that took the clothes you want? Sure. Cutting them up and taking the baby out. Not so much.
>.>
<.<

[Shiny212]

Even though the baby was healthy and trying to breath after it was taken out of it's womb? At what point is an unborn baby "born" and considered a person to you? This baby didn't die until after it was born.

If you read the case it's very much up for debate whether or not the child was "born". If you rip out a child at 8 weeks, 10 weeks 20 weeks, yes it might survive, if there's medical aid at the ready etc, but are you really going to equate it with a person walking up and stabbing the live 28 year old in the heart instead of the stomach?

Technology is going to advance to the point where we can save unborn children very early in the pregnancy, should the mother die or in this extreme case have her child taken out. We can't classify them the same way we classify living born babies, children and adults.

[x_Fiona_X]

That really doesn't sound like something any sane person would ever do. Kill an annoying shopper that took the clothes you want? Sure.

Yeah, ok then.

[Independent voter]

There's been a lot of famous cases over the years where women steal the babies of other women. Desperation + mental illness. I don't know if that's what happened in this case but I wouldn't be surprised.

[josykay]

Since the baby was reportedly alive after that crime, and died later it should be considered a homicide instead of an unlawful termination of pregnancy.

[Deleted]

Should be put down.

[Shiny212]

Should be put down.

Should build her a statue and worship her.

[Deleted]

I'm pretty damn curious about the women's mental state.

OnT Ehhhh.

How does the unborn victims act come into play here I'm curious, it makes any child in utero as a legal victim and classifies it as homo sapiens but only in federal offences iirc.

[Symphonic]

Pretty sure it would be charged with myrder here. Though i guess that person would face trials as insane.
That really doesn't sound like something any sane person would ever do. Kill an annoying shopper that took the clothes you want? Sure. Cutting them up and taking the baby out. Not so much.
>.>
<.<

Apparently the person who cut her lost her own child in some drowning accident. Somehow she must have thought she could just steal someone else's baby right from the womb. (Doesn't she know she can just get pregnant... )

[s_bushido]

I'm fine with it not being classified as murder as long as the punishment for "unlawful termination of a pregnancy" is similarly severe. Classifying it as murder (at least not 1st degree) might not be appropriate anyway, if she had intended to keep the baby for herself.

[Deleted]

What do you think? Is it murder? Or is it not murder? Right now it's just "Attempted murder" against the mother, and nothing about the baby.

Well, strictly legally speaking, it definitely is not murder since the baby would not have been born yet under normal circumstances. The occurence of dilating pains and the beginning of the birth process are usually the decisive point.

That said, this is obviously really, really vile. Ugh.

[Deleted]

Well, strictly legally speaking, it definitely is not murder since the baby would not have been born yet under normal circumstances. The occurence of dilating pains and the beginning of the birth process are usually the decisive point.

That said, this is obviously really, really bad. Ugh.

Depends on state.

The act I mentioned above recognizes the child in utero at any stage as a legal victim and "Human".

The Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 2004 (Public Law 108-212) is a United States law which recognizes a child in utero as a legal victim, if they are injured or killed during the commission of any of over 60 listed federal crimes of violence. The law defines "child in utero" as "a member of the species Homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb".

It's why I'm curious if it applies here or not.

Since my understanding of U.S law is pretty damn limited.

[Goradan]

Just say it's an abortion and go to the catholic church to get some help.

But on a serious note. WTF!!!! that psycho bitch should be charged for murder of an infant. Period I hope she suffers when she goes to prison or a mentalhome. because this as beyond sick and like I have said about abortion, I think there is a time when the child can be considered a person.

[Deleted]

Depends on state.
The act I mentioned above recognizes the child in utero at any stage as a legal victim and "Human".

According to the article, under Colorado law it would technically still be considered unlawful termination of a pregnancy - even though there are debates going on to classify it and similar cases as (first degree) murder. This would be pretty much new ground, though, so we will have to see how it turns out.

Personally, I think it is preeeetty much a borderline-case and I am not totally sure what to think about it.

[Blueobelisk]

Wow that's one of the most horrible things I've heard.

[Miley]

Does intent matter in this? She didn't intend to kill the child so wouldn't this be more like involuntary manslaughter. Obviously grievous harm or attempted murder of the mother.

[holyforce]

I believe she should be arrested and tried for murder. Me being a parents changes perspective on these matters. Say 6-10 months ago. I would say attempted murder on the mothers side. Now not so much.