689 Fully tanking heroic BRF, looking for optimization suggestions

[Menox]

My guild is 10/10 Heroic currently, just looking for suggestions for improvements I can make to my rotation/survivability. My tank rankings in warcraft logs are really low, part of it is likely attributed to the fact I am the very bottom ilevel for my bracket. Any tips are greatly appreciated. I used to pretty heavily theorycraft in bc/wrath If you can provide any sort of number crunching with your suggestions I'd appreciate it as well.

This is my first post so i cant post links i guess

Warcraft logs:
Just enter the warcraftlogs url +/reports/pBvfjZVdX7JCqrn9 <-- First 9 Bosses Heroic

Armory "Menox" Server Stonemaul-US (ignore any missing enchants, i swap some gear around from time to time)

Any other glaring issues you see with the raid feel free to let me know.

Thanks

[tacticaldeath]

At a quick glance, your shield block up-time is poor. You average around 20% which is substandard. If you're going to take ravager, use it on cd for that parry. Optimize your shield wall usage, IE on Kromog, your damage spiked at around 3:05. Your shield wall was available, but not used until about 3:30. Yes it was

Which ultimately leads me to the thing that in my opinion, hurts you the most. You're stacking versatility. Listen, I understand the theory and it works great for Sco. For where you're at though, I think its a fallacy. You're lack of crit is devastating your enrage in some fights(not all). The more you crit, the more rage you get, the more shield block/barrier. Id suggest getting to a more comfortable level of crit (id suggest around 10% unbuffed). More mastery wouldn't hurt either tbh. Others can say what they want about versatility, but Im hard headed and wont change my mind until in high end mythic.

[Deleted]

With ravager I would suggest using it in times of high incoming damage that you can parry or using it during times that you know shield block will be down and use it to delay block slightly so you can recharge some charges on shield block for a much smoother damage intake

[Menox]

Thanks for the feedback so far, I am not sure if something got cut off in your post tacticaldeath, seems like a sentence started. I have plenty of alternate gear in my bank, so I will swap around some things to look more for crit like you suggested and see how that works out. Anyone else who wants to chime in please let me know if you have any other suggestions. I was also curious if people have thoughts on the heroic blackhand trinket, stam with haste proc? I picked it up last night, I might be missing something about haste but it seems like more of a trinket to boost the tank damage, which may be a mythic factor but it seems bad compared to the alternatives.

[Valech]

i only resort to the Stamina trinket for hard hitting bosses like Gruul. On most fights I pick Furnace + Hans/Franz trinket.

Try to improve your enrage uptime by using Berzerkerrush. You need to track your enrage with an addon of your choice. If that is too much hassle for you, bind it to devestate and never think about it again. That is not optimal, but it prevents you from missing out on rage. Also be sure only to use Heroic Strike with Ultimatum proccs. Every Heroic Strike outside Ultimatum is wasted rage. And usually there is enough AoE going on to justify a Shieldbarrier while you are offtanking instead of the little damage heroic strike delivers.

[tacticaldeath]

Thanks for the feedback so far, I am not sure if something got cut off in your post tacticaldeath, seems like a sentence started. I have plenty of alternate gear in my bank, so I will swap around some things to look more for crit like you suggested and see how that works out. Anyone else who wants to chime in please let me know if you have any other suggestions. I was also curious if people have thoughts on the heroic blackhand trinket, stam with haste proc? I picked it up last night, I might be missing something about haste but it seems like more of a trinket to boost the tank damage, which may be a mythic factor but it seems bad compared to the alternatives.

Youre right, not too sure where I was going with that sentence now, oh well...

Personally I'm not a huge fan of stam trinkets, Id much rather have a def stat. Stamina trinkets only seem to help when there are mess ups on the tank. Also haste really isnt great at all. Try to pick up the H/F trinket with mastery and Use:BA. The use is on a short CD and can be used for both Damage, and Mitigation. I really like the Blast Furnace Door+ Tablet of Turnbuckle Teamwork combo.

[Furiacki]

i only resort to the Stamina trinket for hard hitting bosses like Gruul. On most fights I pick Furnace + Hans/Franz trinket.

Try to improve your enrage uptime by using Berzerkerrush. You need to track your enrage with an addon of your choice. If that is too much hassle for you, bind it to devestate and never think about it again. That is not optimal, but it prevents you from missing out on rage. Also be sure only to use Heroic Strike with Ultimatum proccs. Every Heroic Strike outside Ultimatum is wasted rage. And usually there is enough AoE going on to justify a Shieldbarrier while you are offtanking instead of the little damage heroic strike delivers.

All this, although I don't use stam trinkets on really any fight in BRF (687 ilvl). Gruul specifically, his inferno slash initial damage is physical/blockable, BA on equip or use.

On the topic of HS though, I had to change my normal keybind for it of C as I found myself still accidentally using it at times because i was so used to spamming it from MoP. After I made this change my block/barrier uptime went WAY up. I still use it outside of ultimatum procs on select fights such as maidens pre-20% as damage is light and it's a lot of cleave, though the damage is weak for rage spent.

[Detritivores]

It is not good (the blackhand trinket). Your pillar would be much better if you absolutely need a stam trinket. Somewhere is the prot sticky are trinket sims if you search for them. I want to say page 33, but can't remember off the top of my head. Can thank Eddy for that I believe.

Your armory... I'm not sure why swapping gear around means I should ignore missing enchants, but if you say so. Without delving into the crit v. mastery argument, should still have everything enchanted and gemmed for one of them. Again, not stam unless absolutely necessary (can't live through mythic inferno slices or something).

At a quick glance through the logs, your biggest problem is managing your active mitigation. Block uptime is way too low (should be 50ish, possibly more with 4 piece). Your barrier use is disproportionately high by comparison. Strive for better block uptime and only use barrier for unblockable things or to bleed rage. Cooldown usage needs work also. Try to maximize how many times per fight you are using things. Look at your damage spikes and think about the fight mechanics and fight lengths and plan things out. Don't just hold them forever. Gruul is a great example. You should be hitting the same CDs at the same times every time. Example: taking 3 slices, block/barrier 1, block/barrier/demo/last stand 2, block/barrier/wall/(last stand still up) 3. Or even better, keep your CDs for tanking and plan your raid's externals for your slices. There's different ways to do to it, but the point is, have a plan and execute it.

I would also recommend just talenting heavy repercussions while you figure the rest of this out. Yes, it's a tiny dps loss, but it's good to have 1 less thing to think about/button to press while you get the fundamentals down solid.

Best of luck!

Edit: jk. More recent sim on page 49.

[Menox]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll work on some of these things and post some logs again next week to get some more feedback, still feel free to post up anything else you find. If anyone has any ideal-ish warrior logs for me to compare against that would be helpful as well.

I have icehud to track enrage but definitely something i have been meaning to work more on. Any other addons you guys recommend for raids? I have the raiding essentials like DBM, etc. I've been looking for a good one to help with tracking the damage reducing cooldowns that the healers/other raiders have available and show the remaining cooldowns on them since I usually am trying to coordinate the mini cds like hand of sacrifice, bark, vigilance on the tanks.

On the heroic strike stuff, my dps as a tank also feels a bit low, so I have been trying to compensate with the heroic strike damage/ravager combo. If I swap my heroic strike out for mitigation abilities does anyone have suggestions for bumping up the dps in another area?

[Zedthetank]

Addons: I'd suggest picking up Weakauras 2 and finding some custom string or make your own, i track everything from externals to buffs to rage to hp with these fully customizable

Heroic strike: never waste rage on this shit ability, if you're planning on going into mythic at this point your damage as the tank means nothing with item levels as inflated as they are you should be using all your rage on mitigation; as a tank you're there to tank dmg and not die, not deal dmg at the cost of survivability.

[Borgasm]

the block uptime is very low as is the enrage, like they said binding it to devastate would work but is not optimal, furthermore binding block to revenge and shield slam would also work and is also not optimal. but one thing that is true about binding block to both of those is that you get about 50% uptime on block. however it can go off when you aren't tanking and waste rage so i don't recommend it. but it'll get you higher than the 20% you're currently at. food for thought but it's a huge crutch

[Cristom]

All the warriors stating how you should be at 50% shield block uptime are completely misinformed. Uptime is a horrible metric to judge how effective a prot warrior's AM is. You never should use shield unless actively tanking. It is optimal to reserve two shield block charges right before taunting, a charge resets and you have 18 seconds of 100% shield block uptime while actively tanking. The best way to tell how effective your AM is to scroll your mouse over "Hits" on melee, it will tell you how many blocked vs. hits you have taken. Again, it's not about uptime, but timing when actively tanking. I would agree, that your usage while actively tanking is low. The log you presented, for the entire raid, you sustained 917 full melee swings and 817 blocked hits. Another metric to check is rage allocation. You had 57 ultimatum procs and used heroic strike 288 times. Also, check under "resources tab" and check Rage from the list. A lot of the fights, you're wasting a significant amount of rage, which means you're sitting at a full bar of rage for too long.

Judging by all this, I would assume you're spamming heroic strike

[Valech]

All the warriors stating how you should be at 50% shield block uptime are completely misinformed. Uptime is a horrible metric to judge how effective a prot warrior's AM is. You never should use shield unless actively tanking. It is optimal to reserve two shield block charges right before taunting, a charge resets and you have 18 seconds of 100% shield block uptime while actively tanking. The best way to tell how effective your AM is to scroll your mouse over "Hits" on melee, it will tell you how many blocked vs. hits you have taken. Again, it's not about uptime, but timing when actively tanking. I would agree, that your usage while actively tanking is low. The log you presented, for the entire raid, you sustained 917 full melee swings and 817 blocked hits. Another metric to check is rage allocation. You had 57 ultimatum procs and used heroic strike 288 times. Also, check under "resources tab" and check Rage from the list. A lot of the fights, you're wasting a significant amount of rage, which means you're sitting at a full bar of rage for too long.

Judging by all this, I would assume you're spamming heroic strike

You seem not to understand how logs work.

[Furiacki]

You seem not to understand how logs work.

This. If you are tanking about 1/2 a fight and have a high uptime on block during this time, and low uptime when not tanking, that would equal out to about 50% uptime. Now, if he had an acceptable uptime% and was still having damage issues - then you could take the extra effort to verify he is not only using block enough, but when he should be (whilst tanking).

[nikihar]

I wouldn't gem stamina, would change the pillar for Flamebender/Margok Mythic trinket and would surely go crit.

[Cristom]

You seem not to understand how logs work.

God I hope you're trolling or I feel sorry for your guild. If you're advising warriors they should aim for "max" uptime on BRF fights, that is shit advice. What makes warriors potent is taunt swaps, which allows you to float 2 charges before a taunt and use both, adding 12 seconds of coverage. Recharge is 12 seconds, now you end up with 18 seconds of coverage. If you blow a charge while not tanking, you gimp your coverage of shield block while tanking goes down. Uptime is horrible metric. Please go through mythic logs of good warriors, you'll notice their uptime are 35-40% generally, but they have minimal unblocked hits. It is poor to advise people they should aim for max uptime. Unlike you, I actually provide evidence to support my claim.

[Valech]

God I hope you're trolling or I feel sorry for your guild. If you're advising warriors they should aim for "max" uptime on BRF fights, that is shit advice. What makes warriors potent is taunt swaps, which allows you to float 2 charges before a taunt and use both, adding 12 seconds of coverage. Recharge is 12 seconds, now you end up with 18 seconds of coverage. If you blow a charge while not tanking, you gimp your coverage of shield block while tanking goes down. Uptime is horrible metric. Please go through mythic logs of good warriors, you'll notice their uptime are 35-40% generally, but they have minimal unblocked hits. It is poor to advise people they should aim for max uptime. Unlike you, I actually provide evidence to support my claim.

No. I am not advising max uptime on any boss for tanks. But I find it funny, that the rest of your post replies to me as if I were.
I am just hinting, that logs show when you are using stuff. "When" like in "if you are currently tanking the boss or not". You seem to simply take a random boss, click the tanks name und glance at his shieldblockuptime and decide "well, that is a fucked metric cause why should he use shieldblock if he is not tanking all the time". But that is only half the work. And you seem not to know.

[Detritivores]

Exorsus is my favorite CD tracking addon. Highly customizable, very nice. OP asked a few days back sorry.

As for the guy angry about 50% uptime, I think we are all aware that uptime and effective uptime are 2 different things. It's just that most of us didn't bother defining the OP's effective uptime when his regular uptime is 20% or less. It's good that you understand how block is used to our advantage for taunt swap fights, but no one that you're being salty with needed that explained to them.

[Deleted]

Any tips for cd rotation and lvl 100 talent for Gruul and Orgorger hc?

[Valech]

Gruul:
Have enough rage for a full Shieldblock and Shieldbarrier for each slice. That is especially hard if you have to take the first slice. Try to use the Bullrush glyph to egenrate more initial rage. Shieldblock and Shieldbarrier will take away a decent portion of the damage the slice would deal to you.

if you are using a three-slice-tactic, use nothing for the first, Demo and last stand for the second and Shieldwall for the third (last stand should still be active at that point). Pick Gladiator´s Resolve as your default lvl 100 talent. Be sure to call for external CDs if you have to soak the next slice and nothing is up. I recommend Blood Legion Cooldown as a cooldown tracker for externals. Does not give you as much freedom to adjust like, say, Exorsus Raidtools but is far easier to handle.

For Oregorger you want a full Shieldbarrier for each acid torrent. Shieldblocks fill the time between the torrents and have, if i recall correcly, no impact on acid torrent itself at all. Pick Anger Management as your lvl 100 talent. It will allow you to use Demoshout again for the third acid torrent you have to soak. Start with Demo shout for the first, Shieldwall for the second and Demoshout for the third torrent. If the interrupting in your group works perfectly and you start with the first acid torrent, you will have to soak a fourth torrent. Call for an external here. After the roll-phase your Demoshout should be up again. Note: Everything that absorbs or reduces damage on you will help you. Stuff that increases the healing on you or increases your healthpool will NOT help you (regarding acid torrent). Note furthermore: Every acid torrent leaves a debuff on you. Make sure to not stand in the direction of the next acid torrent after the other tank has taunted. If you stand, for example, behind the active tank, you will of course not soak the second torrent like intended, but still take increased damage through the torrent.