the reason hunters are so unfair in PVP compared to the other classes

[Breccia]

It is actually as simple as giving casters more mobility

They tried that, then took it all away in 6.0...except for Hunters.

I don't PvP, but it does seem like Hunters get to have their cake and eat it, too.

[Ishayu]

i was just mocking OP as he did the same thing with hunters

wanna guess what's getting you kills?

No, he actually wasn't doing that. That's what makes this situation so incredibly silly. It looks like a giant exaggeration of epic stupidity, but it isn't. It's a factual statement of what the state of Hunters is.

Obviously if you're playing a mage, your advantages are going to get you kills, but Hunters could do it just as well. It's called Thugcleave, and it's very strong. I already told you the reason why it isn't quite as good as RMD, and it basically boils down to the level 30 Hunter talent tier messing with Rogues. That's it.

[Sforza]

Hunters can simply do everything and are too strong against any melee. They are really strong in 3v3 and nearly invincible in 2v2 unless against another hunter, to the point that they have ruined the 2v2 bracket completely along with resto druids.
It's time for a nerf.

[Stormspellz]

Hunters have an obnoxiously high level skill floor, no other class is 50% as effective for the minimal amount of work a hunter has to do, this is easly shown with how hunters drop off significantly duelist + range

[Dristereau]

The class is ridiculous. I've been geared my Arms Warrior up for the last Week and a Half (27k Cap with 18k done now), short summary, cannot beat a Hunter with half a brain. I've had cases where, due to heroic leap being on cooldown, the Hunter has run around a pillar from me having 50% Hp to dead just because the pet can take chunks out of me. I can't do anything against it. And even if I did get round, Kill Shot at 35%. We also played against a double MM Comp, who got my DK friend dead in the opener from Camo Stealth just by opening on him. There is just no way most classes can beat them.

Whilst I'm complaining from a Warrior POV, I also have a Mage which I RBG with, Druid (needs a massive nerf to Feral, Boomkin and Resto), DK and I also have a Hunter. I played MM since WoD pre-patch (earned Fire Watcher Achieve Mount etc in BGs with an average amount of 30 per BG). I did play MM more, and was able to crit for 70k Chimera Shots and double 70k Kill Shots, and recently swapped to BM. Just lol, I don't fear Warriors in the slightest, they're free kills. They're mobility, freedoms, pet, roots, damage, stealth, passive heals are stupid.

Warrior was nerfed for having Second Wind active at 30% HP in MoP. Yet why do Druids and Hunters now have it permanently?

[Deshi]

The class is ridiculous. I've been geared my Arms Warrior up for the last Week and a Half (27k Cap with 18k done now), short summary, cannot beat a Hunter with half a brain. I've had cases where, due to heroic leap being on cooldown, the Hunter has run around a pillar from me having 50% Hp to dead just because the pet can take chunks out of me. I can't do anything against it. And even if I did get round, Kill Shot at 35%. We also played against a double MM Comp, who got my DK friend dead in the opener from Camo Stealth just by opening on him. There is just no way most classes can beat them.

Whilst I'm complaining from a Warrior POV, I also have a Mage which I RBG with, Druid (needs a massive nerf to Feral, Boomkin and Resto), DK and I also have a Hunter. I played MM since WoD pre-patch (earned Fire Watcher Achieve Mount etc in BGs with an average amount of 30 per BG). I did play MM more, and was able to crit for 70k Chimera Shots and double 70k Kill Shots, and recently swapped to BM. Just lol, I don't fear Warriors in the slightest, they're free kills. They're mobility, freedoms, pet, roots, damage, stealth, passive heals are stupid.

Warrior was nerfed for having Second Wind active at 30% HP in MoP. Yet why do Druids and Hunters now have it permanently?

Hunters hardcounter warriors just like warriors hardcounter priests ect. Nothing to qq about! Itsa l2p issue!

[Torais]

I always thought the problem was less to do with Hunters being OP and more to do with most other ranged classes being functionally useless in the current melee-dominant PvP climate.

Even if you nerfed Hunters or somehow removed them from the game completely, I doubt much would change. You would still have the problem of casters being unable to actually cast anything in a world where you can still be Sapped/Cheap Shot/Kidney Shot/Kicked/Gouged/Blinded/whatever (replace with whatever melee class skills you feel like. The story is nearly the same regardless.) while casters lost so many of their suppressive skills. Meanwhile, melee barely gave up a damn thing in that area this expansion.

Hunters, Balance Druids and Affliction Warlocks are pretty much the only ranged specs/classes that can actually somewhat operate in the current state of PvP. I find it somewhat confusing when people lash out them in some sort of petty jealousy rather than focus on the real reason their caster of choice functions so poorly in PvP now.

[Aleksej89]

I do not think giving mobility to casters is the right answer.
Hunters are bonkersly strong BECAUSE of their "high mobility + max dps".
I really do not want MORE classes to have the option of "mobility and significant DPS".

Melee classes do FULL damage while moving - but they lack range.
Range classes can attack from 40yards - but they get DPS loss if moving.

Not only is that a logical way of distinguishing the classes, but it is also one of the simpler to design and implement.
Hunters need changes - either reduced mobility, or reduced DPS on the move (pet included).

[Torais]

I do not think giving mobility to casters is the right answer.
Hunters are bonkersly strong BECAUSE of their "high mobility + max dps".
I really do not want MORE classes to have the option of "mobility and significant DPS".

Melee classes do FULL damage while moving - but they lack range.
Range classes can attack from 40yards - but they get DPS loss if moving.

Not only is that a logical way of distinguishing the classes, but it is also one of the simpler to design and implement.
Hunters need changes - either reduced mobility, or reduced DPS on the move (pet included).

That might be valid if melee didn't have multiple ways to instantly close distance, thus rendering any sort of range advantage insignificant at best.

I can see where you are coming from with your logic. But the fact remains that gap closers have been handed out like candy on Halloween and none have been reeled back in despite casters losing many of their escapes/CCs/instant casts that made those closers necessary in the first place. The idea of casters actually having to cast sounds good on paper but when the melee can bypass the entire range issue with a single move and immediately follow it up with their smorgasbord of stuns, CCs and interrupts, the whole thing comes off the rails.

I still stand by my claim the biggest problem with PvP this expansion was the ranged vs. melee disarmament being completely one-sided.

[Deleted]

The class is ridiculous. I've been geared my Arms Warrior up for the last Week and a Half (27k Cap with 18k done now), short summary, cannot beat a Hunter with half a brain. I've had cases where, due to heroic leap being on cooldown, the Hunter has run around a pillar from me having 50% Hp to dead just because the pet can take chunks out of me. I can't do anything against it. And even if I did get round, Kill Shot at 35%. We also played against a double MM Comp, who got my DK friend dead in the opener from Camo Stealth just by opening on him. There is just no way most classes can beat them.

Whilst I'm complaining from a Warrior POV, I also have a Mage which I RBG with, Druid (needs a massive nerf to Feral, Boomkin and Resto), DK and I also have a Hunter. I played MM since WoD pre-patch (earned Fire Watcher Achieve Mount etc in BGs with an average amount of 30 per BG). I did play MM more, and was able to crit for 70k Chimera Shots and double 70k Kill Shots, and recently swapped to BM. Just lol, I don't fear Warriors in the slightest, they're free kills. They're mobility, freedoms, pet, roots, damage, stealth, passive heals are stupid.

Warrior was nerfed for having Second Wind active at 30% HP in MoP. Yet why do Druids and Hunters now have it permanently?

Your warrior isnt specced right/you don't know how to play it V a hunter. I have no problems v hunters on my warrior, kill 4 in 5 that I meet. The ones that can kill me would be killing me on their war v my hunter cos they are simply flat out better at wow then I am.

- - - Updated - - -

Capping my undergeared friend at 1500 rating as a Full geared Unholy DK. BM Hunter opens from Camo with Barrage and Crows and on use with no frenzy stacks. Oh look, I'm at 30% health in a couple of seconds while his rogue partner is still trying to get to my partner to land a sap.

We eventually won due to him having no idea what to do after his initial burst but pressing 2 buttons and getting a plate wearer to less than half health in seconds, wat.

I personally don't find them OP in 3s since they do go down fast in a stun kind of like feral druids. But, the amount of tools the class brings along with how easy it is to do damage is annoying. Most classes need some kind of setup to do similar damage and even if some classes don't need setup they need to do the damage on their own not passively from Crows and pets.

Don't believe you. Im a BM hunter and in a bg/open world opener that includes an agilty pot as well as the pvp trinket my opener of wrath kill command moc 2 arcanes barrage kill command does NOT bring [pvp geared] people into kill shot range. Thats with me using 11 outa 14 conquest pieces, conquest gun rest honor.

I can video call you over skype and stream it or meet in EU realms for a dual if you want absolute proof. I'm telling you no way no how can a BM hunter just pop wrath crows and barrage then go afk. if its wrecking you ya have to be in greens or something.

[Deleted]

Don't believe you. Im a BM hunter and in a bg/open world opener that includes an agilty pot as well as the pvp trinket my opener of wrath kill command moc 2 arcanes barrage kill command does NOT bring [pvp geared] people into kill shot range. Thats with me using 11 outa 14 conquest pieces, conquest gun rest honor.

I can video call you over skype and stream it or meet in EU realms for a dual if you want absolute proof. I'm telling you no way no how can a BM hunter just pop wrath crows and barrage then go afk. if its wrecking you ya have to be in greens or something.

Don't take whiners too seriously. Their vast majority are wearing dragon slaying gear, insufficient pvp gear and/or are outright noobs and/or playing classes that hunters counter the shit out of (like all classes counter something) like dks, warriors and mages.

[Deleted]

Don't take whiners too seriously. Their vast majority are wearing dragon slaying gear, insufficient pvp gear and/or are outright noobs and/or playing classes that hunters counter the shit out of (like all classes counter something) like dks, warriors and mages.

Good advice, thanks.

[solarfallz]

Just find a dot class or a healer, GG.

To be quite honest, I'd take a small nerf if it meant they stopped butchering all the fun this class has.

"just 2v1 him, hunters are fine!"

'kay

btw http://i.imgur.com/WU6qsdE.jpg
note my tooltip in the bottom right
obviously this is with a zerker and agi pot, but it should be noted that I'm MM. BM hunters barrage much harder because of BW+Focus Fire while MM only gets its mastery. It's not unreasonable to expect 200k+ barrages without zerker/pot as BM. Add to that the pet damage, autoshots, and of course, murder of crows ticking for around 15k per second, and we're looking at some pretty "balanced" nearly-unstoppable damage

[Flaks]

Hunters hardcounter warriors just like warriors hardcounter priests ect. Nothing to qq about! Itsa l2p issue!

Warriors don't hard counter anything. You're a pretty bad spriest losing to a warrior 1v1.

I agree with flaim here. Hunters are very noob friendly and have always drawn new players anyways. In competitive play, mages and warriors make hunters look balanced which is why there aren't going to be any real changes to the class.

If I could make any changes though I'd make MM the go to pvp spec somehow and focusing shot the go to talent so we wouldn't have to see the gimmicky bs that bm and sv have been bringing to the table. Oh and remove double kill shot.

[Dookles]

As someone that's played shaman, paladin, warlock, and dk above 2500 in 3v3...I'm having a blast on my fresh 100 hunter alt. I'm only in honor gear and already fear nothing except for other hunters. It's pretty absurd. Nothing else I've played compares to how unbelievably ridiculous this class is.

[Deleted]

So much this! I main hunter and my biggest nemesis is a balance druid, a skilled one will wreck me every time =). Also priests and affliction locks are tough as f**k to counter, I feel like a tryhard every time XD.

But I dont make cry threads on the forum about demanding class nerfs. I try to improve my gamerplay instead as much as my skill level will allow me to =)

.. you 'complain' about a balance druid (why? if the RNG gods are on his side he gets empowered moonbuff so he can instant cast a spell what crits?) that coplled with 3 Star Surges who MIGHT crit (again .. RNG Gods) ??
afflction lock..i hope it is about fear?
priest why? dots? I doubt that.. Vampire Embrace - Shadowword:Pain together do not deal more than 10k damage per tick. Instant cast MB (if taken that talent what most do) and instant cast MS if you get a proc. To get a proc you need to dot.. Dotting means 30% less damage on the target with your MB/MS/Shadowword of death. Soo you can safely dot the pet. Honestly why would you loose from a Shadowpriest.

... honestly ....

- - - Updated - - -

Glad people still don't know how to do proper burst as a hunter. AMOC/BW/Barrage is fine, but you still have to line up your trinkets together with focus fire, else you barely scratch the surface of enemies hp

Fervor + BW + trinket + Orc Racial + Barrage = huge damage.

Question is for hunter not IF he gets it but 'when'.. and that is the whole problem. No skill involved just wait to have that Fervor lined up and you can enable the rest. Hunter has to survive till the 5 stacks.

What exaclty is hard about that if you play in arena with a healer?

[Deleted]

Another of these topics////
Stop crying make hunter and then come to cry about how (insert class here) is OP

[Yassy]

Once upon a time you'd be able to tell the difference between a really good hunter and a bad hunter. The good hunter would just not let you get close to him, the bad hunter would just hold S.

Now bad hunters can hold S and still kite you easily. I don't think there is anything more frustrating than watching a hunter back pedal and you just cant get to them.

[Gilbergrape]

Hunters don't get any respect in the game. It's the class for the aunts and grannies of the devs so they can play.
and that's all.

[Professor Expert]

1. Unable to interrupt them. I'm sorry this is just plain pathetic. Unable to interrupt them? they are range and immune to interrupts. they can literally just stand still and nuke you without having to fake cast or anything

Why should they have to fake-cast? They are not casters, and they cannot "nuke" anyone. You obviously have not played a hunter at 100, or you are referring to something like a level 19 hunter vs a level 19 any-other-class-besides-priest...in which case you may have a valid point.

2. Can deal 100% of there damage on the move. They can deal everything, 100% of there damage, 100% of there crowd control, 100% of everything on the move. How is this fair? They have all the benefits of a Caster and a melee with none of there weakness? Melee weakness is they are melee but can damage on the move, Casters can deal damage from range but can be locked out. Hunters can damage on the move but can't be interrupt. yeah goodgood on that one. Why not make all warrior abilities 40 yard range.

This is a pretty stupid remark. Warriors with 40 yd range would not be warriors...they'd be hunters. Did the char. creation screen trip you up? Yes, hunters can deal 100% of their damage while moving and from range...but nothing you said matters outside of 1v1 or maybe 2v2, because if they have more than one player attacking them they're going to drop pretty fast.

3. They can kill somebody passively. Put Crows + Pet + Barrage and just stand still. Over the space of 5-7 seconds the target will die, or become seriously low hp without any input after 3 abilities have been activated.

If this is happening to you, you're doing something wrong...and if you're whining about losing 1v1 then you'll have to learn to accept that no matter which class you play, there is going to be another class that has an advantage on you 1v1. Deal with it.

4. You give them access to virtually every single ability in game. They have
Self Healing

Traded for reduced damage; most classes have some form of passive damage mitigation and/or auto healing. Not a hunter exclusive.

Burst Cool-downs on extremely low cd

Rapid Fire is a haste-boost and it's a 2 or 3 min CD. BM hunters, of which I see almost none in pvp these days despite me playing one, have 1 min CD on bestial wrath...but the trinket-like effect of BR has been removed and it's not as good as it used to be.

Defensive cool-downs with 2 charges

I don't think deterrence should be usable back-to-back and I don't think any class should have an ability that gives them full immunity to damage. Hunters are not the only ones with this, and as a defensive ability, it's really all they have besides mobility (which is useless against other ranged classes).

Stealth

Situational and easy to detect unless glyphed...if it is glyphed you move at 50% speed. It's not a broken ability like Burst of Speed is with rogues.

Cast on the move
immunity to interrupts

They're a ranged class; they're not casters. Enough with this.

spell reflect

Only when deterrence is up and if they glyph for it, which means it's not improving the effectiveness of deterrence...although it is funny in BGs to see all the stuff reflecting.

Hand of Freedom

Master's Call, which they've had for a long time. It has a 45 sec CD and a short duration, plus it's dispellable.

Mortal Strike

It was called Widow Venom and it was removed in WoD. It was a shot that only debuffed a target with a 25% reduction to healing. Now, you need to be a BM hunter using the t-rex pet to get that effect. It's not like MS because hunters have no damaging ability that also reducing healing. Stop exaggerating.

Feign Death - which can work like a weak vanish vs castes

It's like the only thing hunters can do against a caster aside from counter shot, which has a long CD for an interrupt.

Interrupts

No, just one. Counter Shot.

Stuns

Just one stun and it's a talent choice between intimidation and binding shot. They don't get both.

Sleeps

Do you know the difference between plural and singular nouns? Wyvern Sting is a talent choice that they can choose instead of either of the two stuns.

Traps

Have had them for ages....and now, no more scatter-trap.

*execute*
"gap opener"
"Heroism"
Roots
Slows

Aside from Ancient Hysteria, a pet ability available only to BM hunters using certain specific pets, these abilities are fairly standard. Mentioning them in your litany of why you think they're OP adds to the overall LOL-worthiness of your post.

Freezes
Knock backs
Offensive Magic AND enrage dispels

Tranq Shot costs 50 focus and is really only practical for a BM hunter to use while bestial wrath is up. Aside from that, they'll gimp themselves using it. They don't have "freezes" they have "ice trap" which you already whined about a few lines up. Now you're just repeating yourself in your vain attempt to paint hunters as some kind of "god class".

Pet

Thanks for reminding us that a pet class has a pet.

soon you'll re-introduce a similar design to necrotic strike and give it to a half undead pet that hunters can tame to be even more god like.

You haven't stopped to consider that maybe the reason you're having trouble with hunters is that you don't know what you are doing? Because you don't seem to know much about them or their limitations...especially if you are calling them 'god like'.

Honestly its a joke, I cannot even begin to grasp how you believe this is acceptable? i cannot begin to even grasp how you thought this design would work in the game?!?!?!? Clearly you did zero pvp testing or have no common sense at all. Surely classes are ment to have strength and weaknesses? Like my Destruction warlock, good burst damage and healing but no mobility and terrible sustainable damage.

Hahaha...here we go. This guy on his destro lock gets rolled by a hunter in a duel and takes to here to whine about it. They could nerf hunters to the ground and you'd still be a bad warlock. The problem isn't "them", it's "you"...try the duel again as affliction and see how it turns out.

Hunters are seemingly designed around strengths, strengths and more strengths.

Hunters burst is also the most passive thing i've ever seen

"Right Click target"
"Press Bestial Wrath"
"Press Crows"
"Press Barrage"

Do nothing for 6 seconds.

So you stood there for 6 seconds? It didn't occur to you to fear the hunter? That...or LoS.