6.2 Rogue Buffs

[Mac223]

Those five item levels end up being about a 5% increase

This simply isn't true. You can try going from non-WF to double WF weapons in SC or simC and you'll see that it's a ~1% increase.

[Deleted]

So why exactly does rogues not get a proper 635 weapon? O_o It makes no sense at all lol

[Artorius]

Luckily that 5 ilvl lower weapon can actually be used on progress though, unlike Archimonde weapons
When you get them progress is over.

Did it ever cross your mind that some players like the DPS competition during farm?

Not having a weapon of the same ilvl for everyone is lame unless we're talking about a legendary.

[Noxina]

Ye its a weird system tbh.. So what if boss nr. 1 drops something with better stats than boss nr. 50?

[Artorius]

Ye its a weird system tbh.. So what if boss nr. 1 drops something with better stats than boss nr. 50?

Weapon dmg diference will almost always be more important than any stats. And I'm saying "almost" because I'm not aware of the stat weights this expansion to say for sure. Not playing the game since SoO.

[Noxina]

Weapon dmg diference will almost always be more important than any stats. And I'm saying "almost" because I'm not aware of the stat weights this expansion to say for sure. Not playing the game since SoO.

Let me rephrase: So what if the first boss you kill in the raid instance got an item with better stats (BiS stats) than the final boss of the raid instance? That is the reason they added this ilvl increase the further you get into the raid, so you don't have to DE items from a boss that you worked your ass off for for like 5 weeks (they used Blast Furnance as an example here, which is about the 3rd hardest boss in BRF I believe).

I rather have my BiS item in the start of progressing, which will help us progress from the get go, than have it dropped on the last boss so it will only help while you farm the raid.

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And yes, weapon damage for all physical damage dealers is always BiS stat on weapons.

[Mellomania]

Did it ever cross your mind that some players like the DPS competition during farm?

Not having a weapon of the same ilvl for everyone is lame unless we're talking about a legendary.

That's true, but then class/spec is also important
Depending on what is FOTM unless you compete with other of the same class.

[Dextar]

Luckily that 5 ilvl lower weapon can actually be used on progress though, unlike Archimonde weapons
When you get them progress is over.

While true they aren't limited to only having 730 weapons, they have the option of 735. When it comes to the farm grind, the only thing you have left is trying to rank on fights and you won't be able to keep up with the Mage/Lock/Shadow/Boomkin/Ret/DK/War who have these weapons. Take a look at the ranks for BRF, it's already dominated by those classes and it'll be even worse with this dumb decision.

This simply isn't true. You can try going from non-WF to double WF weapons in SC or simC and you'll see that it's a ~1% increase.

Stats on the weapon, not overall dps.

[Ryanite]

Didn't realize the difference might be that big. I know of course that for progress it doesn't matter since if you are able to kill Archimonde, it's all farm from that point

Not really, think of it this way. heroic archimonde gives 720 ilvl loot which is equal to the first 4 bosses of mythic Hellfire. So getting a 720 item from Archi is like having a mythic item before progress starts. hunters and rogues get their 720 weps from the first boss of mythic and ferals have it by far the worst having to wait to get a 725 wep from the 5th boss. I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make but it just seems like a stupid way to go about it, maybe they will just increase hunter, feral and rogue damage to be more or less equal even without the 5 ilvls or maybe it's their intention to prevent the stacking of these classes.

[Deleted]

With the 2set being nerfed i imagine it wont be a gain for testing anymore?

[Ryme]

Uncertain yet. Nerf feels incomplete with no changes to the trinket.

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In fact, currently, I still have T17 pc/ T18 2pc ahead of T18 4pc.

[Deleted]

Uncertain yet. Nerf feels incomplete with no changes to the trinket.

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In fact, currently, I still have T17 pc/ T18 2pc ahead of T18 4pc.

I know it's purely coincidental evidence, but we've tested some mythics PTR yesterday and me and my rogue friend tried all Mut combinations (T17 4pc, T17 2pc T18 2pc and T18 4pc) and full T18 came out top in our tries. Plus, playing with T18 subjectively felt a bit more fluid and had higher dps potential with lucky RNG.

[Ryme]

I know it's purely coincidental evidence, but we've tested some mythics PTR yesterday and me and my rogue friend tried all Mut combinations (T17 4pc, T17 2pc T18 2pc and T18 4pc) and full T18 came out top in our tries. Plus, playing with T18 subjectively felt a bit more fluid and had higher dps potential with lucky RNG.

Did they have BHTV heroic or mythic?

[Deleted]

Did they have BHTV heroic or mythic?

Testing on PTR makes all of your gear to be scaled to a specific ilvl depending on the fight you are testing. Yesterday for the fight we did, all gear was scaled to 720, meaning even the older T17 pieces were scaled up.

[Ryme]

Right, but did they have that trinket? I don't know how the PTR works with new gear, but everything hinges on having that trinket for T17 2pc.

[Deleted]

Right, but did they have that trinket? I don't know how the PTR works with new gear, but everything hinges on having that trinket for T17 2pc.

Yeah, we used the trinket. 720 makes it the heroic version I guess.

[Ryme]

Well, I can only tell you what sims tell me, and sims tell me that T17+T18 is about 1-2% ahead of straight T18 right now at mythic level. There's every chance, though, that this doesn't hold at lower gear levels or without legendary rings etc.

At any rate, it won't last. Hopefully.

[Jarvid]

Fiery mentions:

"ShC does not currently take into account proc stacking so beating heart of the mountain is somewhat undervalued for assassination and subtlety.
ShC’s envenom uptime modeling is a slightly optimistic at high (>80%) envenom uptimes which may distort the value of the assassination Archimonde trinket."

in his 6.2 analysis.
I don't know if this is still valid but may be a reason for the difference between sim and actual ptr results.

Btw Ryme and maybe a bit OT, when testing Soul Capacitor did you by any chance try DfA instead of Shadow Reflection and have it used when proc is up, because of "The damage stored by Soul Capacitor only applies to the rogue’s damage, damage from the shadow reflection clone is not stored."

Very unlikely this will change the ranking of sub rogues, but maybe worth a look.

[Ryme]

Very briefly for assassination, best I could get was it being ~8% behind SR.
For subtlety, I haven't done any testing into it, the new sub apl has no support for DfA and I didn't have it in me to create any

[Jarvid]

Should have known you have thought of this :-)
~8% behind SR is disappointing though.
Have to admit the new verbose apl has kept me from trying myself.