Optimism about Windwalkers in 6.2 (PvE)

[Brawg]

Hello friends. I made a post about this on the general forums, and it wasn't very well received. I got downvoted like crazy because everybody is apparently too salty to think about the situation. Post here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...2876052?page=1

Anyways, here's what I'm thinking. Read this whole post before you reply, and read it thoroughly.

Right now, Tigereye Brew only gives 60% damage increase and is mainly used to enhance our Fists of Fury casts or do burst. As such, mastery is a very low valued stat. Our main focus right now is saving stacks for big FoF casts and not much else, maybe using one for Serenity every now and then.

With the coming patch, Tigereye Brew's damage is going to increase to 100%. I'm predicting that this is going to vastly increase the value of mastery. With more mastery comes more stacks. With more stacks comes more uptime. We could potentially have 100% uptime on Tigereye Brew. We wouldn't have to save it for FoF anymore, and we'd just be using it every time our buff is about to expire.

What does this mean? Consider the abilities that they nerfed by 30%. Blackout Kick, Fists of Fury, Tiger Palm, and Chi Explosion. If my prediction is correct, with the new 100% damage buff up all the time, all of those abilities are going to be doing 10% more damage than they do in 6.1. Add this on to the abilities that aren't nerfed: Storm Earth and Fire, Chi Burst, Chi Torpedo, Spinning Crane Kick, Rushing Jade Wind, Zen Sphere, Chi Wave, Invoke Xuen, Jab, Rising Sun Kick, melee swings. All of these are going to have a big benefit from the improved TEB. Essentially, TEB is going to function like Slice and Dice. It will be a huge detriment to not have it up all the time, further increasing the value of mastery.

It also looks like they want us to have more focus on Rising Sun Kick, as it didn't receive a nerf. Also, judging from the set bonuses, they clearly want us to be using RSK a lot more. A welcome change, I miss my backflip kicks being prioritized. Also, we got a buff to Tiger Strikes that gives us 15% more Multistrike.

Let me know what you guys think. I've explained my theories to a few of my friends and they think it makes sense. Remember, read this post very carefully before replying. It's a little convoluted but I laid my idea out as best I could. Also, patch notes are early and subject to change.

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As for PvP, I still think it's going to be a buff. TEB won't be up all the time, but Windwalkers' only damage really comes from Hurricane Strike and Fists of Fury with 10 stacks. Those two abilities lost 30% damage, but with the new TEB they will go back up 40%. 10% additional damage on Hurricane Strikes and FoF compared to patch 6.1. It's not going to be bad at all, I'm staying optimistic.

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Another edit, what the hell are those monk sets? The art team really dropped the ball there. Worst transmog patch 2k15.

[Sterb]

I'm missing the math part of this post that suggests that 100% TEB uptime is a reasonable goal and the accounting for the secondary stats lost to achieve that much mastery.

[Fakie]

I don't see our mastery doubling or more (which would be required for 100% uptime) in just one tier.

[Brawg]

Just a wild theory with my junk math skills, I need someone with real math skills to actually investigate the idea. My thoughts behind why it makes sense is that they could never justify a huge nerf to our main abilities without some sort of large scale compensation.

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I don't see our mastery doubling or more (which would be required for 100% uptime) in just one tier.

Perhaps they'll increase the benefit we get from each point of mastery if this is the plan they're going with.

[Sterb]

Just a wild theory with my junk math skills

That might be why you got downvoted.

Perhaps they'll increase the benefit we get from each point of mastery if this is the plan they're going with.

Not part of the patch notes. If that's the plan, why leave it out of the first set of changes? Also, if 100% uptime is realistically achievable, we'll have a new hit cap stat. That's always fun, right?

[Brawg]

That might be why you got downvoted.

Not part of the patch notes. If that's the plan, why leave it out of the first set of changes? Also, if 100% uptime is realistically achievable, we'll have a new hit cap stat. That's always fun, right?

Maybe not even 100%, but our uptime will most likely go up. Right now it's at about 50-60% uptime depending on the fight for most players, but if it goes up to like 70 or 80% from any sort of mastery stat value increase, that would be interesting.

[Deleted]

Pre 6.2
Tiger palm hits 10k
With TbE hits 16k
6.2
Tp hits 7k
With TbE hits 14k...
Its huge nerf

[NoiseTank13]

So, TeB is the new Inquisition?

[Emerya]

I'd imagine our uptime will go up at least a bit due to the increased combo breakers from the set bonuses (offset a little by losing the +1 stack on FoF from our current 2pc). Still doesn't seem to make this a desirable change in any way in my eyes though.

[Lalaman23]

With the coming patch, Tigereye Brew's damage is going to increase to 100%. I'm predicting that this is going to vastly increase the value of mastery. With more mastery comes more stacks. With more stacks comes more uptime. We could potentially have 100% uptime on Tigereye Brew. We wouldn't have to save it for FoF anymore, and we'd just be using it every time our buff is about to expire.

What does this mean? Consider the abilities that they nerfed by 30%. Blackout Kick, Fists of Fury, Tiger Palm, and Chi Explosion. If my prediction is correct, with the new 100% damage buff up all the time, all of those abilities are going to be doing 10% more damage than they do in 6.1.
.

You literally did 0 math and just said random words. No they are not going to be doing 10% more. No we are not going to have 100% uptime on TEB, and if we did we wouldn't just magically gain 1k worth of mastery. We would be losing Multi/Crit/Vers/Haste.

Pre 6.2
FoF hits for 100
TEB FoF hits for 160

6.2
FoF hits for 70
TEB FoF hits for 140

I'm not sure where you got 10% increase from

[Juliansfist]

I'll be cautiously optimistic and say these changes are experimental and wont make it live.

[pandanaconda]

I'll be cautiously optimistic too, and say these changes don't look that bad anyways. Done some rough calculations, and they aren't that bad for us (posted the first quick results on Fury of draenor.) I'm waiting for simcraft to confirm this but I believe we'll be fine, and our burst AoE will go up by a lot. Many people don't care about this but hey, SCK, chi burst and torpedo all got a huge buff here.
Wait and see, might not be as bad for us as you might think.

Rest in peperonis BRM though

[Foncy]

Tell me how these nerfs aren't going to hurt us that much... Just as the math has clearly stated Pre 6.2 -FoF hits for 100; TEB FoF hits for 160 / 6.2- FoF hits for 70 TEB FoF hits for 140.

Even assuming you can keep a 100% uptime on TEB it's a 12.5% dps loss. Also don't be fooled by those tiger strike changes they're nerfs as well. The fact it doesn't proc to multistrikes anymore is going to drop it's uptime by about 10-15%.

Optimistically speaking... cool, our burst AoE improved a lot. So what, are we just becoming enhancement shamans 2.0? If this seriously is the direction blizzard wants to take windwalkers that I'm happy to say I won't be playing the spec any longer. About four more months of farming mythic content, seems like plenty of time to gear up a kitty

[Basilmoyh]

I very much doubt the mastery rating stat weight will be improved beyond multistrike rating stat weight, ww's attuned stat, and with other stats being closely weighted to multistrike already, I very much doubt ww's will start stacking mastery. I very much doubt Blizzard would thrust it upon ww's who have stacked MS/Haste gear to be forced to stack mastery, which has been completely avoided. That would not be fair. Also, note haste improves in value with this change like it does with the brf 4 set bonus.

[Paxz19]

The reason your math is flawed is because the values that used to be 100% are now reduced to 70%. Taking these values and enhancing them.

6.1
100% base blackout kick hits for 10k
Full tigereseye brew now at 16k

6.2
New 70% power blackout kick hits for 7k
New full tigereseye brew blackout kick hits for 14k

Math:
6.1- 60% increase to 100% is 160%
6.2- 100% increase to 70% is 140%
With 0 stacks of tigerseye brew tiger Palm, blackout kick, fists of fury, hurricane strikes, and chi explosion will hit for 30% less than live values, at full 10 stacks of tigereseye brew tiger Palm, blackout kick, fists of fury, hurricane strikes, and chi explosion are still putting out 12.5% less damage than live values.
RSK, t2, and t6 talents have been buffed under the effects of tigereseye brew up to 40%.
Based on patch notes it looks like RSK is going to move towards the top of our damage done due to changes to all other baseline skills and tier set bonus currently implemented in the ptr. (All speculation for this last sentence regarding RSK).

[Brawg]

I tried some actual math today with scaled down numbers from one of my Gruul parses. It's not a huge increase, but it's going to make us much more reliant on Tigereye Brew for sure. Also it's just really rough math.

[Lalaman23]

It's not a huge increase.

So huge its not even there (no but really i have no idea what im looking at)

[Prodigypz]

I have posted this in other places so I am just going to copy paste it here.

After seeing the changes/set bonus/and trinket, this is just a way to dumb down the class. Take Chiex(probably acension), stack haste/mastery, 100% teb uptime, spam spam spam, spam combo breaker and rsk procs. If this is the intended route then the 30% nerfs seem justified if we are able to get enough haste and mastery to have close to no down time and keep a very high uptime on teb and keep spamming.

Edit: Not sure if the trinket auto cast a rsk for you when it procs or if you will get a combo breaker:rsk proc and have to use it manually.

To me it seems this is what they are trying to do with the class. I could be completely wrong and trust me I really hope I am.

[Killface1]

I have posted this in other places so I am just going to copy paste it here.

After seeing the changes/set bonus/and trinket, this is just a way to dumb down the class. Take Chiex(probably acension), stack haste/mastery, 100% teb uptime, spam spam spam, spam combo breaker and rsk procs. If this is the intended route then the 30% nerfs seem justified if we are able to get enough haste and mastery to have close to no down time and keep a very high uptime on teb and keep spamming.

Edit: Not sure if the trinket auto cast a rsk for you when it procs or if you will get a combo breaker:rsk proc and have to use it manually.

To me it seems this is what they are trying to do with the class. I could be completely wrong and trust me I really hope I am.

You are completely wrong. They have literally no idea what they're trying to do with the class, but don't want to be seen as ignoring it.

[SlippyCheeze]

You are completely wrong. They have literally no idea what they're trying to do with the class, but don't want to be seen as ignoring it.

Please. You might consider the other comment wrong, but at least they are doing something other than jamming on a tinfoil hat and screaming "Blizzard r dumdums" at the top of their lungs. This adds literally nothing to the discussion, regardless of you being right or wrong:

If you are right there is no discussion to have because, literally, nothing can change the situation. The developers are just doing random things because they have no idea what they want, so we can't understand the logic behind them, we can't alter them, and basically we just get to sit back and ride it out. We should all just drink while we reroll to some other class.

If you are wrong -- and this is the side of the fence I sit on -- then this comment is also pointless. I don't understand what the Blizzard developers are trying to do here, but that doesn't mean they don't. It just means that their reasons are opaque to us, for now. Speculation about why changes happen potentially adds value, as does debate about those speculations. If we can infer it we can, for example, perhaps figure out the rotation they would prefer we had to the rotation we currently think is best, or whatever.

So, yeah. I appreciate you feel unhappy about the monk changes, but please: comments that add nothing may as well not be put into text. They just waste time for everyone who *does* want to figure out what is going on, or whatever.