Suvival hunter Single target: what 90 talent?

[Deleted]

As title, what talent i've to use on gruul?
Lone wolf shoud be better than focusing, but what talent?
I've seen on logs that top hunters are using glaive toss. However, when i run simulationcraft, Powershot is 300 dps ahaed.
Now i'm bit confused XD
Thanks in advance, good game

[Avikur]

http://www.summonstone.com/hunter/survival/#bossguides

[Xerinn]

ive done gruul like 30 times, dps is the same what ever you run dude. just lone wolf is easier if your not good at stagger stepping focusing shot during a smash. i prefer to run focusing shot and glaive toss because the focus gain just feels like its 10x easier to get thril of the hunt procs and i like being able to cast glaive toss as an instant as im moving. so typically if i get a smash and not enough focus for arcane shot and explosive shot on CD i can still move for smash and cast a glaive toss on transition, by the time i cast and dodge im already casting focusing shot and explosive shot coming of cooldown and coz of the huge focus gain ur back into the arcane shots.

[jpthepope]

As title, what talent i've to use on gruul?
Lone wolf shoud be better than focusing, but what talent?
I've seen on logs that top hunters are using glaive toss. However, when i run simulationcraft, Powershot is 300 dps ahaed.
Now i'm bit confused XD
Thanks in advance, good game

personally its a choice that will not lose you much dps in anyone you choose. A lot of higher ranks put powershot on because although its high cd it has great DPET and cand be timed with procs, while glaive toss will help with the nulls in your rotation. Both have benefits and just play with what you want to feel more comfortable with.

[Xerinn]

i actually also like using power shot with lone wolf because you are already playing around with low focus and it feels like a mini nuke.



edit***
ok ive just gone through my logs and found 4 variables i guess u could say


Focusing shot + Power shot {4 mins 15 secs} Focusing shot = 27 cast. Average damage 14500 /// Power shot = 5 cast - Average damage 64900

Focusing shot + Glaive toss {4 mins 25 secs} Focusing shot = 23 cast. Average damage 14600 /// Glaive toss = 14 cast - Average damage 18000 and 16600 {30 hits}


Lone wolf + Power shot {4 mins 13 secs} Cobra shots = 40 cast. Average damage 14900 /// Power shot = 5 cast - Average damage 66000

Lone wolf + Glaive toss {4 mins 20 secs} Cobra shots = 50 cast. Average damage 14000 /// Glaive toss = 10 cast Average damage 14000 and 14900 {20 hits}

One thing i noticed is the abilities cast has focusing shot using alot more arcane shots and lone wolf using alot more explosive shots. Black arrows were all used to the max so this suggests to me that the focusing shot helps proc the Toth buff more often than lone wolf due to being able to spend more focus which in return is raising ur % for ToTH.

[Gracin]

One thing i noticed is the abilities cast has focusing shot using alot more arcane shots and lone wolf using alot more explosive shots.

I'm recently back to playing a hunter after several years of absence, so excuse me if I'm completely wrong. I'm not sure why you think lone wolf would lead to more explosive shots. More damage from an explosive shot, yes, because that's part of the talent. But barring some wicked RNG in lone wolf's favor you should always have the same amount of used explosives no matter what talents.

Explosive shot is always second on the priority behind black arrow, so you're likely over using arcane shot, and then shorting yourself focus for explosive shots while talented to focusing shot. If that's the case it's amusing, because from what I've read about and seen in my gameplay, most tend to short themselves that way when they use lone wolf.

[jpthepope]

I'm recently back to playing a hunter after several years of absence, so excuse me if I'm completely wrong. I'm not sure why you think lone wolf would lead to more explosive shots. More damage from an explosive shot, yes, because that's part of the talent. But barring some wicked RNG in lone wolf's favor you should always have the same amount of used explosives no matter what talents.

Explosive shot is always second on the priority behind black arrow, so you're likely over using arcane shot, and then shorting yourself focus for explosive shots while talented to focusing shot. If that's the case it's amusing, because from what I've read about and seen in my gameplay, most tend to short themselves that way when they use lone wolf.

No you are correct. Barring RNG and maybe some trinket proc timings, you should be using explosive shot on cd and you would not get any more using FS then LW. FS just grants more arcane shots which because of how hard arcane shot and ss hits adds up.

[Xerinn]

yeah i got a fair idea on the sv rotation but im saying the lone wolf seemed to produce less thrill of the hunt procs therefore ur arcane shot use will generally be lower coz ur not gonnna waste 30 focus to shoot it when ur priority is explosive shot oppose to focusing shot returning alot of focus u always have the spare focus for arcane shot when everything on cooldown, when lone wolf and explosive shot on cooldown you might shoot an extra cobra shot but u never use an extra focusing shot. and explosive shot is not always 2nd, if i have a trinket proc and i already have the heavy shot buff and ToTH im going to use the arcane shots.


focus shot
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...casts&source=5
16 Toth proc
22 lock n load
focus return 1500

lone wolf
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...asts&source=13
10 Toth proc
24 lock n load
focus return 560

both within 10 explosive shot

[WarBringerPT]

Well given that you spend more time casting cobra shot(with lone wolf) vs spending focus on arcane(with focusing shot), it's logical that with focusing shot you'll get more toth procs.

[Xerinn]

yep, resulting in alot more arcane shots cast
was just replying to post up a bit with some evidence to help show gracin what i meant.



edit**
sorry i didnt type my first post right when i said resulting in more explosive shots, i meant for each talent not compared to each other.
as in lone wolf had more explosive shots over arcane
and that focusing shot used more arcane over explosive.

[Slicer299]

i enjoy power shot with lone wolf because you are already playing around with low focus it seems to feel like a "special ability".
i,e black arrow is on cooldown, arcane shot is on cooldown uve got like 20 focus and explosive shot is coming off cooldown in 2 seconds bam powershot into explosive shot suddenly u hit a TOTH proc quick cobra shot quick arcane shot then ur black arrow procs lnl and now uve got 2 free explosive shots and like 10 focus remaining and 2 ToTH procs left. now is when i kind of "weave" these abilities to ensure im never stuck waiting for focus.
ill cast the free explosive shot and keep the 2nd "Stored" then ill cast the arcane shot costing me 10 focus then ill go back to the gtrr explosive shot and now my focus is back upto 10 now cast my last arcane shot then depending on what cooldowns are looking like rinse repeat or even double cobra shot to prepare for 10 seconds in the future~
i just love the fun with lone wolf because you pretty much play with 40~ focus and youre always casting, its rare u get over 50 unless u do a double cobra to try get the black arrow into arcane shot combo



edit***
ok ive just gone through my logs and found 4 variables i guess u could say


Focusing shot + Power shot {4 mins 15 secs} Focusing shot = 27 cast. Average damage 14500 /// Power shot = 5 cast - Average damage 64900

Focusing shot + Glaive toss {4 mins 25 secs} Focusing shot = 23 cast. Average damage 14600 /// Glaive toss = 14 cast - Average damage 18000 and 16600 {30 hits}


Lone wolf + Power shot {4 mins 13 secs} Cobra shots = 40 cast. Average damage 14900 /// Power shot = 5 cast - Average damage 66000

Lone wolf + Glaive toss {4 mins 20 secs} Cobra shots = 50 cast. Average damage 14000 /// Glaive toss = 10 cast Average damage 14000 and 14900 {20 hits}

One thing i noticed is the abilities cast has focusing shot using alot more arcane shots and lone wolf using alot more explosive shots. Black arrows were all used to the max so this suggests to me that the focusing shot helps proc the Toth buff more often than lone wolf due to being able to spend more focus which in return is raising ur % for ToTH.

If you get more Explosive Shots with Cobra than with Focusing its because of 1 of 2 reasons, either more LnL rng procs or you are not managing your Focus correctly and ES is coming off CD when you don't have enough Focus to cast it or while you are in the middle of casting Focusing Shot.

I'm guessing the later as you say you do things like you will sit on an ES in order to cast a TotH Arcane Shot. You should never be not cating Explosive Shot in order to cast anything else. Its the biggest thing you can do to hurt your own DPS. Waiting to cast it delays the every ES after that, and you run the risk of a rng LnL proc wasting that CD altogether. Lone Wolf is also always a DPS loss except for Hans and Franz, but Marks outperforms Survival on that fight anyways.


On Topic for the OP, pure single target take Powershot, any fight with 2+ targets up on a regular basis always take Barrage. Glaive Toss isn't touched.

[Xerinn]

I dont delay explosive shot for just toth procs though and its hard to explain.
For the delay i look for all of these things to line up with each other:

1. Heavy shot has more than 1 sec remaining
2. Trinket has procced (multistrike trinket) Usually its my scales of doom.
3. Explosive shot is never fully stored at 2 free shots to allow black arrow refreshing LnL
4. Thrill of the hunt has procced allowing 10 focus per arcane shot.

I think you can over prioritise explosive shot if u dont have any variables similar to that in the rotation. The arcane shot's average damage is quite high (19k) and then the instant serpent sting tick (11k)

I get the same amount of explosive shots with either level 90 that i use, i meant the focusing shot has alot more arcane shots cast because of the excess thrill of the hunt procs caused by high focus pool to play with. I thought we were past this bit...

Ive been told my focus management is alright for SV but always up for some advice if you have it. I have posted multiple times in the help my dps thread.

lone wolf appears to be the go to talent for gruul if you want to front page logs.