Raiders: Dual Spec Vs. Single Spec

[Rosstafa]

You can't force people to play what they don't want to play, and it's easy to end up maining your OS because you slip into it out of necessity. You should definitely encourage people to learn and gear OS though. Perhaps if people refuse to use their OS in raids, don't allow them to roll OS on any loot that drops?

[Deleted]

Playing the spec you want to play is fine, and we encourage it in our setup.
But as a Raid leader of a casual guild 2/10 M , nothing winds me up more when we have just about 20 ppl online , but we are 1 tank short, even though we have 2 boomies, 2 furys , 2 rets and a dk. and we have to cancel the raid as our 2nd Mt can`t make it....

I used to Main tank in our raids, but as real life meant i couldnt consistently make every raid, i rerolled dps as i didn`t want to hold guild progress by being a tank short when i couldnt make it, and we STILL suffer from that problem purely because players dont want to dual spec.

But i`m sure if we weer more serious about progression, i would have to start coming down harder on players requesting they get some off spec gear and learn it.

[Sparty]

I've led the same guild for 10+ years now, in top US 50/100 settings.

I've always recruited players for one spec, and it has been an asset if they can play two. But when needed, I expect every one of my players to know their second spec and be ready to play it. I had a Resto druid app pick up Boomkin and geared him up, gave him ample opportunity to work at it since I knew we needed a boomkin for a Mythic Blackhand kill.

In more casual environments, play what is fun sure.

Ask not what your guild can do for you, but what you can do for your guild.

Be a team player.

[Rygore]

I like when players are familiar with their off spec (or other roles on different toons, etc.) but I would much rather fill missing roles with players that main it than ask someone to fill that role with an off-spec. This only really comes from personal opinion, in that I have always been an elemental shaman, first and foremost. I have played resto before, but because I don't think it is any fun, I feel like I am ultimately just far worse at it than I should be. There is a strong lack of desire to play perfectly when I am in a spec I do not enjoy, and I can't expect all other players to enjoy their off-specs as much as they enjoy their main ones. It's not a matter of 'let's have fun', but more of a matter of 'This is not what you play best, I would rather find someone who DOES play this role best'.

[Deleted]

Ask not what your guild can do for you, but what you can do for your guild.

Be a team player.

You sound like some US sargeant in Vietnam movie.
This sounds like player is a slave to guild. Thanks, but no. I have my own goals.

[Wilderness]

You sound like some US sargeant in Vietnam movie.
This sounds like player is a slave to guild. Thanks, but no. I have my own goals.

And your opinion is perfectly fair. So is his. Both ways of thinking are fine, they are just different approaches to the game. Where problems arise are when you have a player who thinks one way and a guild who thinks differently. Or when a guild has had a certain approach and then decides they are changing it. That causes conflicts and if a guild has always been more relaxed about things, then that guild should approach changing that very carefully and openly with its raiders.

[Sparty]

You sound like some US sargeant in Vietnam movie.
This sounds like player is a slave to guild. Thanks, but no. I have my own goals.

Like Wilderness says, its a different way of thinking. I'm all for the team and I will do whatever it takes to get it done and ensure my guild succeeds(within reason).
I think people should play team sports more often growing up and foster more of those values

But ultimately it is what you get out of the game, and each approach has their merits and their place.

[clevin]

So I don't raid anymore but back in Wrath we needed a 3rd healer early on in Ulduar 10. I was playing shadow and we could lose my DPS and hit things like enrage timers... so I stepped up and healed.

I didn't DPS in Ulduar after that with a couple of late exceptions.

That is why people are leery of switching. Aside from perhaps not liking the other role or not knowing it and having it be a role critical to success (tank, esp), it's not uncommon for people to move to another role to help out... and then get stuck in that new role that they really don't want to play.

[kamuimac]

I think people should play team sports more often growing up and foster more of those values

funny thing you mention group sports - when i was growing up we played football almost eveyrday after school - and 99 % of time my friends were playing on thesame positions - why ? cause they were better at them so there was no point whatsoever to suddenly swap atacker for goal keeper cause he wouldbe probably absolutely shit at doin it so if faced with this dillema aka missing some people we would just think about doin other group activity instead foircing friends to do something which they hate.

- same is with off-specs - there are people who are exelent at their main spec while playing offspec they are below average and competitive players hate feeling like they perform below average. if you missing people just be better at recruiting and assembling team. or make sure that people while applying to the guild areavare they will be required to play off spec on mythic skill lv so they have a chance to laugh at your face and dontwaste time only find enviroment that will appreciate their main spec skills more.

[cuafpr]

1) change the rules of being a raid to say that if you play a hybrid you have to take on two roles
2) accept the fact some hybrids still only like one roll.

*note if you do #1 better help them with gear for the pieces that change with specs, or else i'd be like F-off. when i did progression raiding our OS requirement was gear one tier behind current tier.

[Dreyen]

You have people who don'T want to tank?

Hell, i've wanted to tank so much but everyone in my guild wants to tank and i'll never get to tank... Most fun i've had in wow is when i switch specs all the time to meet needs for the raid. I've done dps/resto and tank/dps a lot.

[Bigbazz]

Some people don't want to offer their services for a role they didn't intend to play for a few possible reasons.

1. They don't want it to become a habbit, the guild/group could begin to rely on this player to fulfill this role going forward, when that player did not want to play it to begin with. To avoid this situation from becoming a possibility and to force an alternative solution they refuse to do it... Which is mostly perfectly reasonable, situation depending.

2. Fear of letting others down, or being criticized for failing or not doing the best job etc.

3. Pure dislike of the role, some people are really into doing one specific role and sometimes with one specific class for whatever reason... I personally love playing DPS Warrior and I have a very competitive nature when it comes to doing dps, it's the only thing that really motivates me to play... It's not that I actually dislike tanking but that I pretty much only play so that I can do dps and compete on meters, and I don't really care what others think about that view of the game!


I don't mind helping out to tank, though I make absolute sure that I dont want to make a habbit of it and so far it has worked for me.. Others probably feel the same, they will use their 2nd spec to support their primary spec, I run an Arms and a Fury spec and I use them both.

[Gourmandise]

Blizzard gave them choices they're not willing to let them be taken away for the sake of efficiency or something of the like. Very competitive people are more flexible as their fun is the winning/overcoming difficulty part and anything can be done to achieve that end. The fun of everyone else is usually tied to their choices in the game (race, class, spec, name, etc...), in addition to progression. I didn't pick to be a female human retribution paladin by throwing darts.

[Sunnydruid]

If you are very serious about progression in your guild then remove those that are holding your fellow guildies and you back. It's as simple as saying "Look, we have given you the opportunity to switch specs and stay in progression for this fight, however if you don't want to that bad then we will bench you and find a person to fill the role we need". They will probably make a fuss, however they should understand if you come at them with a good attitude.

Single spec raiders are for more casual raiders who don't want to take advantage of everything they can. But all-in-all it's a good idea to find non-selfish raiders that wouldn't mind offspec'ing to fill a roll when needed. If they choose to stay with their spec, they can find a guild who only wants them for their spec. All not switching to an offspec is doing is showing your raid team that they are selfish or they aren't confident at all in their abilities.

[Deleted]

If you are very serious about progression in your guild then remove those that are holding your fellow guildies and you back. It's as simple as saying "Look, we have given you the opportunity to switch specs and stay in progression for this fight, however if you don't want to that bad then we will bench you and find a person to fill the role we need". They will probably make a fuss, however they should understand if you come at them with a good attitude.

Single spec raiders are for more casual raiders who don't want to take advantage of everything they can. But all-in-all it's a good idea to find non-selfish raiders that wouldn't mind offspec'ing to fill a roll when needed. If they choose to stay with their spec, they can find a guild who only wants them for their spec. All not switching to an offspec is doing is showing your raid team that they are selfish or they aren't confident at all in their abilities.

Does this mean that every alliance raiding guild is selfish and hurting their progress by being Alliance guild? You know, racials...

[Dole4011]

I'm with you, mang. I'm not saying you should force people to fill other roles, but I think it's pathetic that someone wouldn't even consider maximizing their usefulness to the raid by being able to play different roles. In my group, I am the strongest healer, but if we have too many heals, I have to go dps because none of the others are worth a lick in that department.

[skulldelight]

honestly i don't see the issue that some people that play dps roles are uncomfortable playing other roles at a high level

i'm playing a windwalker this expansion and i definitely would not go into a guild with the expectations that i would have to either be proficient at playing brewmaster or mistweaver at a high level because i'm only comfortable raiding as a damage in a high level environment

for every person like me there are other's that CAN do those things so i don't see the issue as long as you're a strong player at what you do

[Sxq]

I respect people that can switch role, but I personally (shadow priest) am not capable of healing at a mythic level. I switch talents, gear, playstyle, etc for every different fight as dps, but I'd have to spend a lot of time practicing/learning/redoing my UI in order to be competent at healing much less perform at a satisfactory level.

If I had a secondary dps spec I would absolutely learn how to play it. (but really, CoP vs AS shadow is basically 2 specs)

But the difference in roles, for someone like me who has never played as healer or tank, really isn't worth it.

[Shamburger]

If you're not raiding at the level that people will willingly go offspec for fights that require or call for it, there isn't really any way to force someone to gear their OS. By all means replace them though!

1: Either on a fight by fight basis, ie// dropping a healer for a dps "You can dps or sit, your choice"
2: Just replace them all together find a player that has no problem raiding both specs and just drop the other dude. "Well we're going to bring XXX because he's going to heal on the fights that we need an extra healer.

We've had to do it before.

[Primalthirst]

In any guild I've ever recruited for, the expectation we have clearly stated is that people will be capable of playing their off-specs on demand and to a high standard.
If you've never made that known then it's unreasonable to expect people to always be willing to do it without question.