Expansion Divergence (Post WoD)

[Zulkhan]

Neither the magisters nor the bloodknights were present to help, Halduron alone was there with some Farstriders and called for Vereesa, because most of his rangers were not in Quel'thalas at the moment. The blood elves could handle the amani on their own, if they mobilized their entire army.

I never argued about the capability to handle the Amani if they had the whole of their army pushing against Zul'Aman (not forgetting however that Vol'jin's warning gave them the capability to properly prepare before the Amani made a single move out of their city) just about the fact that in the actual situation they couldn't, which leave unchanged my point about Theron being quite clueless regarding the situation on the field.

I would say that he was unkillable by living being present. Im pretty sure that against some soul nomming undead or demons he wouldnt fare half as good

Against undead is obvious, they're not living beings. Against demons, it depends how much they can be considered alive or not. But ofcourse some powerful Eredar could use some sort of necromancy to undo Zalazane's protection or something, I suppose.

And as much as i consider gul'dan to be a joke now, in AU he kinda got butchered by demons outclassing most of things we seen. They seem to like that sargeras-fella alot.

No doubt, but nothing change that Gul'dan couldn't achieve near-immortality at all. No way Doomhammer would have been able to threaten him if nothing living was able to harm him. And surely, if Gul'dan was capable to mind-slave plenty of people like Zalazane did, he wouldn't have to care about the honest or supposed "loyalty" of his subjects in the first place.

[Combatbutler]

I never argued about the capability to handle the Amani if they had the whole of their army pushing against Zul'Aman (not forgetting however that Vol'jin's warning gave them the capability to properly prepare before the Amani made a single move out of their city) just about the fact that in the actual situation they couldn't, which leave unchanged my point about Theron being quite clueless regarding the situation on the field.

Again they could have handled things on their own, it would have been a bit more messy though, the Amani would most likely cause some damage in the ghostlands, before the belves mobilize their forces properly and strike back. Halduron and his rangers were not all their troops available, bloodknights and magister are always present in Quel'thlas as well, not to mention the sunfury etc.

Vol'jin gave them the opportunity to crush them before they attacked, but it doesn't mean they couldn't have handled them on their own

[Zulkhan]

I'm always present

"Hellscream's eyes are always upon you"

Damn if this makes sense now.

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Again they could have handled things on their own, it would have been a bit more messy though, the Amani would most likely cause some damage in the ghostlands, before the belves mobilize their forces properly and strike back in force. Halduron and his rangers were not all their troops available, bloodknights ad magister are always present in Quel'thlas as well, not to mention the sunfury etc.

In the end however the players and the Darkspear deal directly with the Amani inside Zul'Aman (mostly the players ofcourse, like in the old ZA raid) while the rangers seem occupied elsewhere. Plus, the Amani were almost back at their previous state of power, they adopted the same pseudo-druidic abilities thanks to Malacrass, a new Warlord was installed and, last but not least, the Zandalari supported them, something of which Drakara was pretty proud about.

If the Amani were a threat for Quel'thalas back in TBC (and they were by all means, what halted Zul'jin's efforts was the shocking revelation that the Horde accepted the Blood Elves as official members and supported them) they surely were in this case too. Sure, the Blood Elves regained some of their lost power from TBC and I don't personally belive they were going to lose Quel'thalas to the Amani honestly, but if they caught Quel'thalas by surprise (which was likely their intention) the damage delivered could have been pretty heavy.

And again, regardless of this, Theron looks pretty clueless anyway. Be it for the safety of Quel'thalas or for mere saving of lives, he understimated the situation where Halduron didn't and that's why he was so pretty much upset (even if he readily shut Vereesa's mouth the moment she was talking shit about Lor'themar).

[Combatbutler]

If the Amani were a threat for Quel'thalas back in TBC (and they were by all means, what halted Zul'jin's efforts was the shocking revelation that the Horde accepted the Blood Elves as official members and supported them) they surely were in this case too. Sure, the Blood Elves regained some of their lost power from TBC and I don't personally belive they were going to lose Quel'thalas to the Amani honestly, but if they caught Quel'thalas by surprise (which was likely their intention) the damage delivered could have been pretty heavy.

The blood elves were pretty weak in TBC, much of their troops had to handle the scourge, helping their people to reach Outland, their sunwell was gone and troops from Outland hadn't returned yet. Their situation became much better after Wotlk, which can be seen very well with the Lor'thmear Sylvanas interaction. In the past he did everything she asked because he had no choice, now he no longer needs to, since they have recovered enough to stand on their own two feet again.

And again, regardless of this, Theron looks pretty clueless anyway. Be it for the safety of Quel'thalas or for mere saving of lives, he understimated the situation where Halduron didn't and that's why he was so pretty much upset (even if he readily shut Vereesa's mouth the moment she was talking shit about Lor'themar).

Not really, Halduron most likely didn't ask the bloodknights or Magisters for help, because he doesn't like either of them that much. Vereesa's appearance in Quel'thalas makes little sense to begin with, since there were more than enough troops to support Halduron, if he had asked for them instead. But it was most likely one of the blizz moments, hey lets involve High elves for no apparent reason.

[Zulkhan]

Not really, Halduron most likely didn't ask the bloodknights or Magisters for help, because he doesn't like either of them that much. Vereesa's appearance in Quel'thalas makes little sense to begin with, since there were more than enough troops to support Halduron, if he had asked for them instead. But it was most likely one of the blizz moments, hey lets involve High elves for no apparent reason.

More than Halduron not asking for troops besides his own Farstriders (pretending his dislike for magisters was above the safety of his kingdom but hey let's go on with it) is the fact that Lor'themar didn't really care to solve the issue by sending those reinforcements in the first place and just asked to Vereesa to get the fuck out.

[Combatbutler]

More than Halduron not asking for troops besides his own Farstriders (pretending his dislike for magisters was above the safety of his kingdom) is the fact that Lor'themar didn't really care to solve the issue by sending those reinforcements in the first place but just asked to Vereesa to get the fuck out.

Maybe he trusted the other parties involved to get things done on their own, Vol'jin was there in person with quite a few darkspear and so were plenty of farstriders along with horde heroes, Vereesa wasn't really needed there to begin with. You may say he underestimated the situation, but considering how weak the amani have become I'd say he wasn't. Vol'jin, Halduron and their troops would have been enough.

You shouldn't forget the Amani weren't beaten by an army of either faction in TBC, just a bunch of neutrals hiring the heroes to help them.
Now they faced professionals and the heroes.

[Zulkhan]

Maybe he trusted the other parties involved to get things done on their own, Vol'jin was there in person with quite a few darkspear and so were plenty of farstriders along with horde heroes, Vereesa wasn't really needed there to begin with. You may say he underestimated the situation, but considering how weak the amani have become I'd say he wasn't. Vol'jin, Halduron and their troops would have been enough.

Maybe, but Halduron really didn't like Lor'themar's interference at all, and difference between the two is that Lor'themar wasn't directly involved in the battlefield, where Halduron was on the other hand. We can even argue that Halduron had really no particulary hard feelings with an once-fellow ranger so he had really little problems in asking for Vereesa's help even if was not strictly necessary, but on the other hand he clarified that if it was his duty to defend Quel'thalas, he had to do that with all the means he deemed necessary.

...or High Elves were there because Alliance players needed some representative in the first place /end

[Moonstream]

I'm sure I'll get stomped for this but here it goes. Instead of there being some big end of the world threat right off the bat, I think it would be interesting to have say a moment of peace. For leveling up past level 100, you got back to a phased version of your races starting zone and start rebuilding your races area after the cataclysm (appropriate challenges and what not). All the while you are leveling, you are starting to become aware of *the major end of the world scenario or big bad person*.

If blizz decides garrison isn't a total fail (would like some changes personally) your new *home (garrison* could be in your races starting territory, which is of course, phased for a level 110 or w/e we would be at that point.

So you go through all your race's zones, the shared, and then end in the lvl 40-50 ish contested zones. (ALL PHASED, from the lower levels in that area)

It just seems such a shame that all these great zones people fell in love with, are basically irrelevant now. Since blizz is also "returning to their roots" or w/e they called it for WoD, it would be an interesting step. Once you pick your race, and after lvl 20, it doesn't really matter anymore. You for the most part never become part of your races culture.

Once you get to the max level, then you can head off to the high new high level zones based on w/e threat is now on the horizon (business as usual). Depending on what ever theme that is going, azhara, forsaken, magatha, w/e (don't have an opinion here, but would like something azeroth based).

Another idea that I personally liked, was the raid not to become available until the server progessed AQ/sunwell style.

This expansion there would actually be things to do throughout the world. That was a cataclysm fail imo, they re-did the whole world but there was no reason to go out into it (sounds like a recurring theme)

I guess the big idea is to make it seem like we are actually in a huge world. Not just some slab of land in the middle of the universe, where we hang out for awhile then fly home.

Be gentile, I've been away from WoW for awhile and some things are still fuzzy.

[Combatbutler]

Maybe, but Halduron really didn't like Lor'themar's interference at all, and difference between the two is that Lor'themar wasn't directly involved in the battlefield, where Halduron was on the other hand. We can even argue that Halduron had really no particulary hard feelings with an once-fellow ranger so he had really little problems in asking for Vereesa's help even if was not strictly necessary, but on the other hand he clarified that if it was his duty to defend Quel'thalas, he had to do that with all the means he deemed necessary

Which makes little sense, calling in high elves from dalaran half the world away, if all he had to do is tell Liadrin and Rommath to give him some troops, because the farstriders were stretched thin at the moment. Halduron doesn't like Vereesa much either, according to shadow of the sun though that might have changed.

...or High Elves were there because Alliance players needed some representative in the first place /end

Which makes most sense, I mean look at the isle of the thunder that is how an blood elf army looks like, a well balanced force, not just farstriders.

[Zulkhan]

Which makes little sense, calling in high elves from dalaran half the world away, if all he had to do is tell Liadrin and Rommath to give him some troops, because the farstriders were stretched thin at the moment. Halduron doesn't like Vereesa much either, according to shadow of the sun though that might have changed.

The only way to give it sense is assuming that Halduron needed Rangers specifically for the job. He lacked numbers on his own, so he tried to compensate them with Vereesa's troops. After all we don't see a single elf inside Zul'Aman, only Vol'jin and his Darkspear, there's chance that Halduron and Vereesa focused on scouting the surrouding area to contain the Amani/Zandalari forces within the walls of Zul'Aman.

[Combatbutler]

The only way to give it sense is assuming that Halduron needed Rangers specifically for the job. He lacked numbers on his own, so he tried to compensate them with Vereesa's troops. After all we don't see a single elf inside Zul'Aman, only Vol'jin and his Darkspear, there's chance that Halduron and Vereesa focused on scouting the surrouding area to contain the Amani/Zandalari forces within the walls of Zul'Aman.

Possible, but still quite strange with bloodknights, magisters, farstriders and Vol'jins troops they could have met the Amani head on without problems, the entire situation has always been weird lore wise, but what's done is done.