Guide: How to Successfully PUG

[Astynax]

My warlock is 100% PUG geared at 680 iLvL which is just 7 levels lower than my 6/7 Mythic HM 10/10 heroic BRF pally main and pulls very comparable damage.

Been seeing A LOT of people complaining about PUGs with the main issues being
1. High restrictions to entry & acceptance
2. Loot ninjas, ML vs PL
3. Bads --> wipes --> disband

Getting to high level from PUGs is doable, but A LOT more of the onus is on you. Unlike guild runs where you go in with the same team each time, the only constant in a PUG is you. If you are not willing to take a good look at your weaknesses in rotation, gear, damage taken, boss mechanics etc. and dont acknowledge that you do have faults to work on, but expect the PUG to fill your weaknesses then you're running with the wrong attitude which will significantly reduce your chances at successful PUG invites and runs. If you dont agree with this then just stop reading here.

Things to do before signing up to a PUG
1. Get geared.
"But why get geared when I'm going to raid to get geared?!"
Essentially people who have the highest iLvLs will get accepted if they compare one signup to another. PUGs aren't there to gear you up, you are there to "carry" the PUG. PUG RLs look to see what you can offer them, not who they can gear up the most. Fill all your slots to the best that you can.

Looking at a lot of PUG only people there's A LOT they can do to get better items on their own from crafted, apexis, LFR, conquest gear.

"But I dont like to do (insert one of said above)" is an excuse PUG RLs will see that they arent there to fully put in 100% where they will pick someone else who does all that over you. It's like if you apply to McD and saying I dont want to do drivethru, just front cashier, but someone else with equal credentials is willing to do it all - why would they hire you?

If you dont want to explore all your gearing paths, then remember it is on you and you're limiting yourself in a PUG.

Get enchants & gems. Even the cheap options will cost you less than 500g for all slots. Improve your numbers to increase your chances of performing better. "But it' just a crappy blue/green/quest item, why waste enchants on it?" - then replace that crap item with something better with one of the multiple gearing channels then enchant it. No excuse to roll in on a 610 blue which significantly lowers your iLvL and performance (also reduces your chances to be accepted into a PUG)

2. Know boss fights. Watch multiple videos, read multiple guides.
There's 2 main types of raiding - farm and progression.

Guild runs are very tolerant on progression where people are learning fights, dying and wiping raids. PUGs have VERY LITTLE wipe tolerance. If you aren't doing everything in your power to prevent wipes, even if you havent seen the fights before, you arent doing your job. PUGs primarily just want to farm raid - kill boss, get loot, move on.

Reading guides and watching videos are a must. Read what the abilities do, videos let you see what the ability looks like. If you don't and just expect a PUG to carry you through it, expect wipes, disbands, wasted time and no loot for all = failed raid.

If you want to learn from PUGs then actively look for guild runs who are on progression. Most guilds in the finder will post that theyre progressing ,expect to die and have patience. Alternatively, run LFR as if it were a higher mode. Circles on the ground, circles around your character - what does that mean? Sure you can ignore that in LFR but if you don't know what those effects are and go into a PUG raid ignoring those then wipes will happen, kicks will happen and you don't get chances at loot or improve.

3. Learn your rotations
Even now I'm always reading logs and talking with people better than I am to improve performance.

A lot of people are upset about "low dps will be kicked", "those under 20k dps will be kicked" etc. Sure there are some who are radically outrageous like needing 25k+ in normal HM (IMO 16k is totally reasonable there), but for the most part RLs know what theyre doing. If you manage your numbers well you automatically default past this restriction, so why fuss about it?

Also compare your numbers to your top parses and simmed values. It's no good when you slack a few PUGs and get comfortable being top dps at 22k when your top parses and sims say you should be 27k. Just because others are bad is no excuse for you to slack!

Also being the best you can with top numbers is a saving grace. A few raids I had it was noted that if you wipe the group you get kicked - no bads, no failures. I ended up screwing up being tired in heroic after 4 wipes (those guys got kicked), but when I screwed up I didnt due to being #2 in DPS and 4k higher than #3. High performance will save you, but doesn't mean you're allowed to screw up. I fessed up and didnt do it again for the rest of the run. No problems.


HOW TO GET ACCEPTED INTO A PUG
1. Give lots of info!!!
Again, this is like a resume. Spamming requests to join group with a blank note doesnt help you. If you're lazy like me with notes, just type out a description once then copy/paste your credentials to every one you sign up for.

At minimum, tell the RL you spec, average DPS (be honest), highest progression and experience. RLs WILL accept people who have more experience vs higher iLvL if it means a cleaner run. Ive seen people who are highly experienced alts at 650 level get into heroics over 670s by communicating with the RL. This is often the #1 thing people will look at to accept prior to just resorting to who is higher iLvL.

2. Get Gold Proving Grounds.
I admit, I didnt do this but on an application this definitely helps and automatically shows up in the LFG app screen what level you're at. It shows you're capable without having to type or link any other info in the application.

3. Get geared.
Same as before, use all methods to get geared. Have a weak slot - you have LOTs of options to get it to a guaranteed minimum 660 level.


PUG Selection
Boss & Progress Selection
Biggest point in downing various bosses starts at the selection. When I see a Gruul run or Fresh BRF run, there can't be expectations of a full clear or even half a clear. I'm expecting Gruul and maybe Darmac & Hans/Franz. Having that same group trying to get Kromog is just asking for death and disband.

If you want to down Kromog, join a group which specifically says Kromog. Chances are people joining it know the fight and are able to kill it rather than trying to face him with a group setup for Gruul. Kill the boss, see where they go after and how they do. After ~4-5 wipes I'm out. It's not being elitist or an impatient jerk, it's efficient PUG hopping to snipe the kills you want. No point joining fresh runs week after week to only kill Darmac and not need anything

There are the very rare 1 in 1000 chances it is a super skilled mythic guild alt run +PUG which blows though everything but dont bank on it.

RL Selection
Read the description. It's like a job opening, why would you apply to something if you didnt know what the job was or who your boss/employer is? If the description already sounds like a jerk, chances are the RL is one. Look for ones where it gives a description of RL qualifications like 10/10 lead, 3/7 Mythic lead etc which significantly reduces chances of "ninja looters" (which I rarely come across, maybe 1 in 20 runs) where they value killing stuff, have the experience, addons and group setup to succeed.

Something generic like "All BoEs on reserve" show that the RL values gear over kills, and increases chances of ninjas & failure. Other descriptions like "darmac need all" also shows a lack in leadership and will attract less skilled players, reducing chances of kills.


PUG Etiquette
Rule #1 - The PUG owes you NOTHING
A lot of people go into PUGs expecting to get geared and receive loot, but this is not how it works. Even if you're in a guild run, there are times where you go and still receive nothing, so why would you expect differently in a PUG?

We all know there's certain peices which are highly desired and just have never dropped for you, then it finally does! YES PLSS I MUST HAVE IT!! But many others are in the same boat. In no situation is your name on it and that you are entitled to it, everyone equally has a chance at every drop even if you don't agree that they "need" it. You get a kill it's progress (more later). You get some loot, all the better. If I get 1 item in 10 boss kills I'm satisfied. It's a seal I didnt have to use and increases my chances to get into PUGs further down the road.

Rule #2 - Don't AFK, troll and waste time
Point is the faster you clear trash and pull bosses, the faster you'll get loot or get more attempts in. If you're there and invited to be in a PUG, it a priviledge to be there. My biggest pet peeve is when we have to summon someone and everyone is AFK with no one helping to click, jump around, spamming emotes or playing with toys. Get people summoned means you get kills in sooner. Getting kills = people stick around = successful raid. Help summon, cast your buff anytime someone new joins the raid, eat your food quickly.

If you have to AFK, let them know so other people who have to quickly AFK can do so at the same time. Nothing worse than staggered AFKs where one person goes, gets back but then someone else is then AFK. Having lotsof this will cause people to leave, disband raids or waste more time finding others to re-summon etc.

Trolling also wastes time, ruins morale, and in more professional raids will get you kicked. There's been time where I setup a summoning portal only to have some troll jump on his giant mount to cover it up, or a mage cast portals all over it so we cant click or get ported out so we have to resummon those actually trying to help. Those people get kicked or dont get loot when a boss dies. If the group doesnt like you, you wont be rewarded even if you feel like you won the loot and call them a ninja for not giving it to you. You get what you deserve - if you're a jerk expect to be "ninja'ed" from more often

Rule #3 - Communicate
In guild runs we have chat, macros which announce what CD is being used and on who etc. In PUGs there may not be those channels or macros especially if you dont have assist. If you cast something call it out "Hand of Sac on tank" or even macro it to /yell what spell was used and on which player. Something simple will make the group more effective.

Also don't assume one run uses the same strategy as another. Ask if you arent sure where blood ritual runs to on maidens rather than just do what you "always do"

Rule #4 - Be aware if someone is getting kicked or leaving
Before the boss is pulled or if someone is AFK, waiting on explanation, waiting on finding more people in group finder, don't go into the boss' room. Simple concept is that frustrated immature players will always pull something to kill the raid as they're leaving or if they got kicked. Raid wipe = wasted gold on repairs, wasted runback time, wasted food buffs etc. If you can have the boss despawn by being in a safe area you can mass rez while saving yourself gold. Even in higher level runs like on difficult bosses in heroic this still happens.


Loot Handling - How do I gear up and actually get stuff?
1. Know which boss drops what
I make a list of which boss has the BiS drops for me in which slot, then tally up which offers the most. Save your seals for these kills. I'd estimate around 65% of my gear comes from seal bonus rolls. If you see that a boss doesnt drop anything you need, just dont join that PUG. This is touched on in PUG seleciton. Only join the ones where you want to bonus roll on, not ones which start fresh or kill bosses you have zero interest in getting loot or progress from.

2. A kill is progress
Indirectly, getting a kill on any boss is getting geared even if you receive nothing from the drop. This is due to the follower missions where if you get a certain number of kills at each difficulty you receive better caches. Even if you kill a boss and get nothing, find satisfaction in that you're one step closer to a mythic cache. 5 of my items (3 used now) were from follower missions which I wouldnt be able to obtain if it werent for all those heroic kills. I had 4 normal BRF kills when my BRF mission popped up, and was able to get a heroic BRF spoils from previous HM PUG kills. This will likely carry on for further raids & follower missions

3. ML vs PL
Always a huge debate on what's better, but essentially it comes down to preference. IMO I choose ML where risk is mitigated at PUG selection and which type of RL I'll "work for". I'm not going to spend my weekly lockout if I think there's a high risk the "guild run" is going to jack all the tier pieces. You can get a sense from the people if they're trustworthy or not. Typically more trustworthy runs have:
-guild voice chat they open up to PUG people
-experienced RLs
-arent douchebags or trolls in game and in chat
-people who don't call others out on one time mistakes or argue
-players who are better geared

ML also gives me bargaining power, where if 3 items I can use drop I can roll on all 3 increasing chances I'll win something, but if one of those is my BiS I can try to bargain and trade for it, therefore no longer needing anything else in that slot for the rest of the raid tier. It lets me snipe the pieces I want more rather than getting multiple cloaks/rings which dont have mastery that I cannot give to someone else. IE. I traded Kromog's shoulders for my BiS cloak, and now I no longer need any other cloak drops at all

[Valech]

I really appreciate the work you have put into this. Thing is, there are either players already following your guidelines, players currently not following those guidelines but willing to improve and those who just dont care and still pug. The problem of that is, that player a doesnt need this, player b doesnt find this and player c won´regard this. It is good work in vain.

[HappyLuckBox]

if your the pug leader:
stop looking at ilvl or achieves to determine who to invite.
just look at their parses on wclogs.



I only accept playes who have 75percentile parses or better. I also friend the 90percentile plus players. my pug runs typically one shot all heroic bosses amd kill heroic blackhand in less than 6-7 attempts. Wclogs parses tell you so muchore about a player's skill than anything else.

[Valech]

if your the pug leader:
stop looking at ilvl or achieves to determine who to invite.
just look at their parses on wclogs.

far too much work for a pug.

[Kazuchika]

How to succesfully pug:

Don't do it in the first place.

[kamuimac]

How to succesfully pug:

require AoTC and 10 itlv higher then instance/difficulty drops - works like magic every single time .

[HappyLuckBox]

far too much work for a pug.

alt tab, type in character name/select realm. takes 10 seconds, about as much effort as armoring them. ensures skill

[Kazuchika]

require AoTC and 10 itlv higher then instance/difficulty drops - works like magic every single time .

Either that or fake all achieves, take all loot from first boss -> leave raid

[Deleted]

Wclogs parses tell you so muchore about a player's skill than anything else.

That's why the SoO WCL-tryhard guilds have done exceptionally well in WoD (#PrimeRising and other disbanded friends).

OT: I'd aim at bringing players with an achievement level higher than the content I plan on doing; I.e. if I have a pug for Brf heroic, I'd prioritize players progressing/completed mythic over players who haven't entered mythic yet. Even if these 'mythic players' have slightly less gear.

[HappyLuckBox]

That's why the SoO WCL-tryhard guilds have done exceptionally well in WoD (#PrimeRising and other disbanded friends).

OT: I'd aim at bringing players with an achievement level higher than the content I plan on doing; I.e. if I have a pug for Brf heroic, I'd prioritize players progressing/completed mythic over players who haven't entered mythic yet. Even if these 'mythic players' have slightly less gear.

I dont know what your referring to, since I never played prior to Wod. But if you are trying to say that having people who parse high doesnt equate to a significantly better group your wrong. Its the same as removing low dps/low hps but you dont have to deal with wiping with them in the first place.

[Deleted]

I dont know what your referring to, since I never played prior to Wod. But if you are trying to say that having people who parse high doesnt equate to a significantly better group your wrong. Its the same as removing low dps/low hps but you dont have to deal with wiping with them in the first place.

I'm saying that achievements/players personal progress (not boosted) is a better indicator of skill that will make your pug run smoothly compared to quickly overlooking WCL statistics (% parses). There are a lot of factors affecting DPS/HPS in raids, making it hard to say that player X > player Y just based on some quick percentiles. I'm not denying that the ability to pull good dps is correlated to skill, but to truly evaluate players you'll have to give the logs a more thorough look, which is time consuming if you're simply just making a pug.

[Slant]

Good guide. A lot of the advice is something I can recommend doing.

- - - Updated - - -

I really appreciate the work you have put into this. Thing is, there are either players already following your guidelines, players currently not following those guidelines but willing to improve and those who just dont care and still pug. The problem of that is, that player a doesnt need this, player b doesnt find this and player c won´regard this. It is good work in vain.

Never in vain if just a couple ignorant people read this and realise they've been doing it wrong up until now.

[Madone]

Typically more trustworthy runs have:
-guild chat they open up to PUG people

What does this mean? Does this simply mean being active in /ra (and/or voice chat), or is there actually a way for PUGs to be included in /g chat without joining the guild?

[Ballrug]

Honestly, although I appreciate OP's diligence, or perhaps just obsession, in crafting a novella on how to meticulously create a situation in which you will be temporarily inducted into a group of people that you will never encounter again in your life, ...

... I've never been able to take seriously anyone who "pulls" damage.

[Marani]

I don't agree fully though I guess it's alright. Personally I'm not a person who leaves their PUGs. Which means, you'll actually have some kind of progression with your PUGs. Which can be reaaally draining but also really satisfying.
And there's one thing that helped me through many of those PUGs: Don't be afraid to make raidcalls and take the initiative. And learn to deal with what you have at hand!
You've got this one player who always fails to get out of the group if he has the debuff? Call him out, as soon as he has it (and preferable tell him where he has to go)
And sometimes... don't be afraid to call out things you feel they should be able to do themselves.... Your pug fails miserably on the bombs in the maidens fight? Even though you already explained the pattern? Well, I've been calling where to move for a whole try ("get next to a circle... now move in!... move out!...move in again!") and it felt ridiculous but people improved soooo much during this one try and they didn't even need it anymore on the next try, because they got the hang of it.

This leads to the whole group improving and you improving your raid leading skills

I personally avoid pugs that have no voice chat. (Surprise surprise!) It is doable when everyone knows what he has to do... buuut it's still so much easier if you have voice communication. It's easier for confirming tactics and it's soooo much easier to handle unexpected happenings during a fight. One of the people disconnects who should have gone on the ship? "I'll go instead!" ... just one little sentence and everythings settled... have fun writing that in raidchat during a try... and even if you do that, half of the raid won't read it. So now you might have two people going and there's no hook left for the tank...

Well... just my 2 cents But I've been admired by my friends how I can possible endure PuGs so long, so I guess I might not be a great measurement

edit: urg. found some bad typos...

[Kokolums]

if your the pug leader:
stop looking at ilvl or achieves to determine who to invite.
just look at their parses on wclogs.



I only accept playes who have 75percentile parses or better. I also friend the 90percentile plus players. my pug runs typically one shot all heroic bosses and kill heroic blackhand in less than 6-7 attempts. Wclogs parses tell you so muchore about a player's skill than anything else.

Its stuff like this that, surprisingly, causes guilds to fail.

If you want to BUILD a successful guild, you actually need to recruit people who are also interested in building something. You yourself need to be interested in building players up. When you recruit just the geared people, you are standing on other people's work.

Given two guilds:


1. one where the guildmaster is enthusiastic and positive about raiding, doesn't set gear requirements and just recruits people enthusiastic about raiding.
2. one where the guildmaster is cranky and angry and only recruits people very well geared and doesn't pay much (if any) attention to how enthusiastic the raiders are.

Guild 1 will BLOW AWAY Guild 2 every time.

Guild 2 will wipe a couple times to stupid stuff (as we all do) and the GM will rant, cut people down, kill morale, cause people log off in shame, and eventually that guild will suffer drama and fall apart.

Guild 1 will wipe a lot of stupid stuff but the GM is just having fun, keeps everything positive and upbeat, and people stay logged in and trying hard, and before long the gear gap with Guild 2 will CLOSE....and they will also be in a better place mentally than Guild 2.

[shi]

Its stuff like this that, surprisingly, causes guilds to fail.

If you want to BUILD a successful guild, you actually need to recruit people who are also interested in building something. You yourself need to be interested in building players up. When you recruit just the geared people, you are standing on other people's work.

Given two guilds:


1. one where the guildmaster is enthusiastic and positive about raiding, doesn't set gear requirements and just recruits people enthusiastic about raiding.
2. one where the guildmaster is cranky and angry and only recruits people very well geared and doesn't pay much (if any) attention to how enthusiastic the raiders are.

Guild 1 will BLOW AWAY Guild 2 every time.

Guild 2 will wipe a couple times to stupid stuff (as we all do) and the GM will rant, cut people down, kill morale, cause people log off in shame, and eventually that guild will suffer drama and fall apart.

Guild 1 will wipe a lot of stupid stuff but the GM is just having fun, keeps everything positive and upbeat, and people stay logged in and trying hard, and before long the gear gap with Guild 2 will CLOSE....and they will also be in a better place mentally than Guild 2.

What do you think this is, a Disney movie? Gear isn't why people rank like crap, it's usually player skill/motivation.

[RubberDuckies]

Thanks for the guide, as a new player coming into wow its nice to know things I am already doing right and other things I could be doing more to increase my chance of getting into raids.

My issue is that I play a tank and since my guild haven't done BRF, i don't have any experience in it outside LFR. I have read guides, watched videos but without first hand experience I still feel unprepared for it. This has made getting into BRF pugs difficult, which means I don't get any experience in BRF, kinda like a vicious circle. Any tips in breaking out of this would be appreciated.

[Saybel]

if your the pug leader:
stop looking at ilvl or achieves to determine who to invite.
just look at their parses on wclogs.



I only accept playes who have 75percentile parses or better. I also friend the 90percentile plus players. my pug runs typically one shot all heroic bosses amd kill heroic blackhand in less than 6-7 attempts. Wclogs parses tell you so muchore about a player's skill than anything else.

omg would you pug minxy then?!

and we can be friends?!?!

[Snaige]

if your the pug leader:
stop looking at ilvl or achieves to determine who to invite.
just look at their parses on wclogs.



I only accept playes who have 75percentile parses or better. I also friend the 90percentile plus players. my pug runs typically one shot all heroic bosses amd kill heroic blackhand in less than 6-7 attempts. Wclogs parses tell you so muchore about a player's skill than anything else.

Decent idea in theory, maybe less good in practise. My guild, for example, does private logs for progress and for farm we don't need logs at all so no one ranks at all. Highly possible that many other guilds are doing the same.