Concept For Next WoW Expansion Raid Structure

[Holyshnikies]

Keep it simple.

10-25 Player Easy Flex (Replaces lfr)
10-25 Player Normal Flex
10/25 Player Heroic

The Paradox of Choice - Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

[Nevcairiel]

LFR will never go, and it doesn't really "compete" with any of the other raid modes either, since organized raiding is quite a different beast, even at entry levels or PuGs.
For LFR, its not only about the difficulty, but also the convenience. Casual Players can just decide to quickly do a short wing of bosses, don't need to manually find a group, hope for the group to get full, and more. LFR is a no-frills, no-mess casual way to get into a quick raid, without the social pressure to do the entire thing.

Now if we take only organized content, there is actually less choices than before, and I don't think its actually too many choices.
Flex Normal
Flex Heroic
20 Mythic

All of these 3 offer a good use-case. Mythic is clear, fixed size, hardest content for (semi-)hardcore organized guilds. Flex Normal and Heroic just offer a different difficulty for you to scale with based on your skill and your gear. Its not a hard or difficult choice to pick which to run, really.

[kamuimac]

another usless lfr hate thread - mythic must be really boring this time if you spend so much time on forums and so little in game.

just give up if any mode would be to go it would be mythic done by 5 % of players not lfr used by 60 % so dont cry about removals or you'll dig your own grave.
its quite certain at htis point that next change to raiding will be first mythic going flex and then it being removed at some point next expansion if lfex version wont bring more people into it.

[Holyshnikies]

This wasn't a thread to be made about "hating lfr". Personally, I don't mind it. But the fact that it's essentially a tourist mode difficultly I think spoils the excitement of being able to fight the bosses that you should have to progress to that takes time and skill and an organized raid. The fact that 15 players can afk an lfr and still defeat the boss and be rewarded seems like a "trophy sport", where even the losers are rewarded. That's not a good reputation for the game. That sounds like little league.

Now, whether you want to agree or not, the fact is, that doing lfr and receiving gear from it currently is the way to go (aside from just buying gear with gold) to boost your ilvl to join normal mode raiding. So I don't want to hear the "it's optional to do lfr", because quite simply, it's not. Having the achievements and a higher ilvl greatly helps to increase your chances of being a part of a raid guild or pug.

I was looking at what worked well in BC and WoTLK. Now that we have the ability to do flex raiding, it's a great tool to incorporate into raiding.

[kamuimac]

Now, whether you want to agree or not, the fact is, that doing lfr and receiving gear from it currently is the way to go (aside from just buying gear with gold) to boost your ilvl to join normal mode raiding. So I don't want to hear the "it's optional to do lfr", because quite simply, it's not. Having the achievements and a higher ilvl greatly helps to increase your chances of being a part of a raid guild or pug.
.

in 6.2 mythic dungeons will offer gear better then in lfr so this argument will be no longer valid - lets see if you will come back and complain that its to easy to gear up via mythic dungeons too since they will be faceroll from day 1.

- - - Updated - - -

Now, whether you want to agree or not, the fact is, that doing lfr and receiving gear from it currently is the way to go (aside from just buying gear with gold) to boost your ilvl to join normal mode raiding. So I don't want to hear the "it's optional to do lfr", because quite simply, it's not. Having the achievements and a higher ilvl greatly helps to increase your chances of being a part of a raid guild or pug.
.

in 6.2 mythic dungeons will offer gear better then in lfr so this argument will be no longer valid - lets see if you will come back and complain that its to easy to gear up via mythic dungeons too since they will be faceroll from day 1.

and ye its totaly optional - last night i have seen somebody organizing hc brf pug with 610 itlv and she had over 27 people in group - so everything is doable if you care enough

[lunchbox2042]

It seems pretty simple as it is. Queue for LFR, gather 10-30 people for normal or heroic or bring 20 of your best for Mythic.

[Holyshnikies]

You all completely let this go over your heads. It was about restructuring how raids are formed. Not about Dungeon gear. Not about lfr hate.

Always amuses me how much people on this site worship the ground Blizzard walks on. That god forbid, any idea, outside of Blizzard be deemed bad and wrong. Just years of observation. Thought I'd share an idea. Guess I should go make a youtube channel and stream everything. Become really popular. And voice myself that way. I would have undead followers (no wow race pun intended). Blizzard could hear the voice of the voiceless. That's how its done nowadays with games, right? lol

[Youn]

I wish they would go to 10-30 for mythic difficulty.

And no.. I don't want to see lfr removed. I am probably one of those people that use it the most. I have 1 mythic main and 11 lfr to normal geared alts. That is alot of lfr.

[Dartz1979]

LFR is only way for casuals to get the legendary chain done, also without it they'd be excluded from seeing endgame content.

[Astynax]

LFR has the benefit for not needing a RL to guide and pick comps, while bringing in the largest amount of DPS possible for a reasonable comp. Super ez mode has no target market and no benefit over LFR

Normal isnt that hard even for fresh 100s in some blues, no need to make an even easier level

[Hotsforyou]

We can only hope they get rid of LFR. One of the worst things ever put in the game next to LFG. Community destroyers they both are.

[kamuimac]

We can only hope they get rid of mythic. Community destroyer it is.

fixed that for you.

[cFortyfive]

fixed that for you.

As if the "community" ever gets close to mythic

[Deleted]

Normal and Heroic need to be replaced by 1 difficulty which should feed into a mythic version. So you would have LFR for the casuals then Normal Raids for the people who like a challenge/organised raiding and then mythic for the ultimate challenge. I feel that Normal to Heroic progression is a stupid extra step that blizzard added in order to keep you busy.

Normal dungeons should feed into LFR/Heroic dungeons where they both drop blues. LFR and Heroics feed into Normal Raids and Normals into mythic. Normal raids scale from 10 to 25 and Mythics have a set group size. I would prefer 15 and 25 man for mythic since 25 worked well in earlier expansions and 15 seems to be a common/achievable raid size for Normals/Heroics in WoD. And do not add another mechanic like Mission Caches where you can get loot above your skill. Make it at least so you get loot equal to the difficulty that you actually play or remove it al together.

While we are at it bring back upgrades but this time let the currency be dropped in the raids ie. Those tokens from dragon soul that you could trade in for gems. Only this time you can use them to upgrade gear. Each boss drops 1 as personal loot. When you get 3 you can use it to upgrade an item +3 ilvl each item can be upgraded twice. A fully upgraded piece will be labelled Warforged.

[Jtbrig7390]

We can only hope they get rid of LFR. One of the worst things ever put in the game next to LFG. Community destroyers they both are.

Funny because FFXIV has both and the community is one of the best I have seen in a MMO. Maybe just maybe the community in WoW has always been shit and these features help you see more of the toxic players...

Yep I do believe thats it since I remember the community being just as bad in TBC.

[Detheavn]

Always amuses me how much people on this site worship the ground Blizzard walks on. That god forbid, any idea, outside of Blizzard be deemed bad and wrong. Just years of observation. Thought I'd share an idea.

An idea in itself is not wrong. The fact that this horse patty has been beaten to death so many times now it's growing mold and attracting vermin.

[cFortyfive]

Funny because FFXIV has both and the community is one of the best I have seen in a MMO.

I'd claim that the artstyle and overall slower approach attracts a certain group of people. Maybe one that comes off as more pleasant to you.

[Polybius]

An idea in itself is not wrong. The fact that this horse patty has been beaten to death so many times now it's growing mold and attracting vermin.

My breakfast is ruined

[Detheavn]

My breakfast is ruined

I'm sorry

[Varabently]

Keep it simple.

10-25 Player Easy Flex (Replaces lfr)
10-25 Player Normal Flex
10/25 Player Heroic

The Paradox of Choice - Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice

Totally agree. Less is more. Too many options is too complex. I also like the idea of a heroic 10 man group. Tired of 20 mans TBH. It's a bad raid size IMO.