Apartment soundproofing issue

[Crimbobbin]

So on the 1st of June I moved into a new apartment. I looked at quite a few places in the area but settled on this one because their website specifically stated that the walls and floors/ceilings were soundproofed. For the first few days of staying here everything was nice and peaceful. Then the upstairs neighbors came back from vacation.

Now, I've lived in apartments/dorms all around the country for around 12 years and I have NEVER had to deal with the amount of sound bleeding I hear from upstairs. I expected that I would hear people walk around every now and then, that would be fine. But I hear them talking, all the fucking time, there's like 4 people up there, they are up all fucking hours of the day and it is annoying me to no end, not to mention every single step they take sounds like they are literally going to come crashing through the ceiling. Earlier today I heard the fucking PS4 menu screen music for 3 hours straight. The past weekends have been a nightmare.

Now one issue is they aren't legally breaking any noise violations so I can't ask them to be quiet, or call the cops or tell the landlord. They are being perfectly reasonable, not that I got a decibel meter to double check or anything >.> <.< ....cough

From everything I've looked up online all I can tell is they basically didn't use any type of soundproofing at all between the floors/ceilings, at least not in my/the above apartment. There is definitely sound proofing in the walls, as my next door neighbors have screaming kids I can hear when outside, but as soon as their door shuts, nothing.

I don't really know if I have any options other than murder them and pay rent on their apartment so no one ever moves in, or break my lease and lose out on thousands of dollars.

I guess my question would be does any one have any experience with false advertisement and getting out of a lease? They advertised soundproofing through the walls and floors, and everything I've heard/read shows they only soundproofed the walls, or completely botched the construction of this building.

Any input or experience would be great.

[Deleted]

If I were in your shoes I would probably first measure the sound levels to make sure that the ceiling is insulated adequately according to the law. If they aren't, speak with the landlord and discuss whether it's possible for him/her to soundproof the ceiling adequately. If the landlord denies, then you can start thinking about suing for false advertisement and all that jazz.

Whatever the problem is, it's not your neighbours however. Unless they're playing trumpet in the middle of the night, chances are they're not doing anything illegal.

[Crimbobbin]

If I were in your shoes I would probably first measure the sound levels to make sure that the ceiling is insulated adequately according to the law. If they aren't, speak with the landlord and discuss whether it's possible for him/her to soundproof the ceiling adequately. If the landlord denies, then you can start thinking about suing for false advertisement and all that jazz.

Whatever the problem is, it's not your neighbours however. Unless they're playing trumpet in the middle of the night, chances are they're not doing anything illegal.

I know it's not the neighbors although last week I was hoping it was but sound tests proved otherwise. It would be so much simpler if it was. As far as insulation, by law they don't have to fill up all the spaces or use material made for sound prevention/air absorption, and at best without a ton of forms and red tape all I would have to go off of would be the landlords word.

I'm not the type of person who would sue which probably means I just have to suck it up here for a year and then get a house instead like every one told me to do in the first place.

One of my friends told me to take an douche bag approach and have music/tv constantly on at just high enough of a decibel to always be in the legal limit so maybe the upstairs neighbors would also complain about it. That also goes against me though as I don't want to cause people to be irritated.

[Deleted]

I know it's not the neighbors although last week I was hoping it was but sound tests proved otherwise. It would be so much simpler if it was. As far as insulation, by law they don't have to fill up all the spaces or use material made for sound prevention/air absorption, and at best without a ton of forms and red tape all I would have to go off of would be the landlords word.

What country do you live in? Would be much easier to help if we knew.

One of my friends told me to take an douche bag approach and have music/tv constantly on at just high enough of a decibel to always be in the legal limit so maybe the upstairs neighbors would also complain about it. That also goes against me though as I don't want to cause people to be irritated.

That idea sounds like a great way to fix nothing and come off as immature in the process, making it harder to get to a lasting solution. Again, your neighbours are most likely not the problem here.

[Crimbobbin]

Currently living in the United States, Tennessee. And again, I understand it's not the neighbors. It's clearly a lack of soundproofing between the floors. I've never been one to do anything to get me noticed when it comes to my home life, I want peace and quiet there, especially when I thought I was paying for it. I'm the type of person who gets pissed off at my own friends in a movie theater for whispering/talking/checking their phone.

edit: just trying to say I'm overly considerate of others around me, to a fault, as long as they aren't purposely trying to cause problems.

[nextormento]

Acoustic insulation is complex.
Airborne sound is dampened through mass, and porous materials prevent reflections. Concrete slabs reduce it pretty well; light structures, like timber framing, not so much; building standards should have it covered, in my opinion. Can you make out the words? or it's just unrecognizable noise?.
Impact sound is absorbed by way of flexible materials. This along with caulking is what, in my experience, people focus on when soundproofing apartments.
It could very well be that the required solutions are in place, but it's badly executed. I would contact the landlord and discuss it. If they've invested in it, it's in their own interest that it functions adequately.
I agree with Tomatketchup that neighbors are rarely the issue.

[Wildtree]

I would probably first measure the sound levels to make sure that the ceiling is insulated adequately according to the law. .

bwahahaha..........
America and sound pollution laws.....
Buddy, those are buildings slapped together with lumber and drywall sheets.... There's no proper sound insulation, even if you wanted to.
The apartment owners lie on their website, and that's probably his way out.. Get a lawyer, and sue the fuck out of em.
With a GOOD lawyer, you might end up living in your own house after the case is over lol

[nextormento]

America and sound pollution laws.....

Legislation on noise control is not particularly good over here either tbh.
We do have some strict ones in recreational and industry areas. But residential buildings rely more on industry standards than in actual legislation*.

(*): We do have a -long and unwieldy- section in the building code since 2006. But abiding by it is usually a matter of doing what you'd typically do anyway.

[Deleted]

Your landowner fucked you by falsely advertising. Talk to him and if he refuses to do something about it, either move or sue.

[Wildtree]

Legislation on noise control is not particularly good over here either tbh.
We do have some strict ones in recreational and industry areas. But residential buildings rely more on industry standards than in actual legislation.

USA: For visual idea...
This: Cannot be soundproof..



And that's how pretty much how all newer buildings are....
Additionally the air ducts.... They transport sound (and smell) as well...

Exceptions of course exist, but those are usually in the downtown area and in old cities like in Boston etc, where they've too built houses made of bricks and concrete.

[nextormento]

USA: For visual idea...
This: Cannot be soundproof..

Oh, I know.
I made a remark on how timber framing is less than ideal. But I know how people are overprotective of their... housing culture. So I didn't want to be too abrasive. But yeah: acoustics-wise they suck big time.

[Crimbobbin]

Acoustic insulation is complex.
Airborne sound is dampened through mass, and porous materials prevent reflections. Concrete slabs reduce it pretty well; light structures, like timber framing, not so much; but building standards should have it covered anyway. Can you make out the words? or it's just unrecognizable noise?.

When they are in the room directly above where ever I am I can make out full conversations most of the time, when in a different room I can hear them but it's unintelligible. This leads me to believe they didn't use any type of airborne sound dampening material at all between the floors.

bwahahaha..........
America and sound pollution laws.....
Buddy, those are buildings slapped together with lumber and drywall sheets.... There's no proper sound insulation, even if you wanted to.

To be fair, I've lived in a few apartments where there were no sound bleeding issues at all, one was on the second story of a three story place, and I was surrounded on all sides, the most I heard there were the people above me walking around every now and then, but not like this place. And as I said originally, the sound proofing in the walls here is spot on, I literally have to put my ear flat against the wall te hear my next door neighbors and even then I can barely tell what the hell is going on, and they have loud kids. Yes, I put my ear to the wall and listened like a creep in order to see if the website was completely full of it. They got half of it right at least.

[zenkai]

This is why, before I bought a house, I would live in town homes

[Deleted]

So on the 1st of June I moved into a new apartment. I looked at quite a few places in the area but settled on this one because their website specifically stated that the walls and floors/ceilings were soundproofed. For the first few days of staying here everything was nice and peaceful. Then the upstairs neighbors came back from vacation.

Now, I've lived in apartments/dorms all around the country for around 12 years and I have NEVER had to deal with the amount of sound bleeding I hear from upstairs. I expected that I would hear people walk around every now and then, that would be fine. But I hear them talking, all the fucking time, there's like 4 people up there, they are up all fucking hours of the day and it is annoying me to no end, not to mention every single step they take sounds like they are literally going to come crashing through the ceiling. Earlier today I heard the fucking PS4 menu screen music for 3 hours straight. The past weekends have been a nightmare.

Now one issue is they aren't legally breaking any noise violations so I can't ask them to be quiet, or call the cops or tell the landlord. They are being perfectly reasonable, not that I got a decibel meter to double check or anything >.> <.< ....cough

From everything I've looked up online all I can tell is they basically didn't use any type of soundproofing at all between the floors/ceilings, at least not in my/the above apartment. There is definitely sound proofing in the walls, as my next door neighbors have screaming kids I can hear when outside, but as soon as their door shuts, nothing.

I don't really know if I have any options other than murder them and pay rent on their apartment so no one ever moves in, or break my lease and lose out on thousands of dollars.

I guess my question would be does any one have any experience with false advertisement and getting out of a lease? They advertised soundproofing through the walls and floors, and everything I've heard/read shows they only soundproofed the walls, or completely botched the construction of this building.

Any input or experience would be great.

Hey! I've been in similar positions, so let me divulge.

The last place I rented was with 5 other people - huge house, looked really nice, landlords seemed fine. Fastforward a couple of months and the landlords were awful, the house was basically falling apart but they did it up to make it look as if it wasn't. We found out that they had broken the clause in the contract lots of times, and we negotiated with them. Eventually it worked out, because they were in the wrong.

Now, it sounds as if your landlord is in the wrong for false advertising. The first thing I'd do is contact him (nicely) and tell him about the problem you're having: that's what landlords are there for, and if it's a problem for you, it'll be a problem for every other person who lives there i.e. not a good investment for him. If he doesn't look into it or resolve it, I'd then be a little firm. Take a look at the contract and see if anything has been broken - if not, play up to the false advertising thing. Talk to him and make him understand that you're not happy there.

[nextormento]

This leads me to believe they didn't use any type of airborne sound dampening material at all between the floors.

That much is almost a given for timber framing. This "airborne sound dampening material" is not something very special: it's mass, something that spruce/pine wood is not famous for. That puts harsh limits on how much insulation can be achieved.

If a building lacks any acoustic consideration beyond what the code regulates, there are a few things that can be done.
For airborne transmission, for instance, they can replicate to some extent the concept of box in a box. Adding suspended ceiling, with independent joists, and increasing the density in that cavity (mineral wool could do). Also, properly executed floors, adequate isolation of ducts, piping, etc. The point is, beyond caulking gaps, it's not as easy as layering some insulation material: it's a decision heavily tied to construction techniques.
Impact noise is what people typically insulate against, after the building is done. With acoustic matting and/or floating floor. Note that if this is done in your apartment it will prevent your noise from reaching down; but to prevent the noise from your neighbors upstairs, the flooring needs to be done in theirs. If there isn't some serious work on your ceiling and the owners don't own the whole building, I'd be skeptical of this "ceiling soundproofing".

That you can hear full conversations leads me to believe that the house is simply code-compliant without further consideration, or that any posterior soundproofing was badly done.
A note on code compliance. I've no idea about the US, but here you can experience design breaches happen during construction on some occasions. That is: we issue the plans, which do comply -and that suffices for local authorities-, but it may not be executed to plan. Like not caulking gaps at the bottom of a drywall, which has an impact on acoustic needs. These are things the owner might be interested in figuring out.
As for you, discuss it with the landlord: after all, it's in their interest that the apartment is adequate. Figure if there's something they're willing to do, reach some negotiation, figure if it was false advertisement or not, etc.

[Tinykong]

Look into a constructive eviction.

Make sure you document your complaints in writing, read your lease carefully.

[Themius]

USA: For visual idea...
This: Cannot be soundproof..



And that's how pretty much how all newer buildings are....
Additionally the air ducts.... They transport sound (and smell) as well...

Exceptions of course exist, but those are usually in the downtown area and in old cities like in Boston etc, where they've too built houses made of bricks and concrete.

The apartment I live in I hear nothing from anywhere, unless I'm in the hallway. It's a new building as well so it's built in the typical lightweight construction way.

[Independent voter]

The apartment I live in I hear nothing from anywhere, unless I'm in the hallway. It's a new building as well so it's built in the typical lightweight construction way.

Yeah, modern insulation about 6" or so and the newer double pane windows deaden a lot of sound, even in wooden houses.

If I were OP I would wear earplugs, get a white noise generator like a fan, etc.

[Crimbobbin]

If I were OP I would wear earplugs, get a white noise generator like a fan, etc.

Shouldn't have to wear earplugs, and as far as white noise, I can hear them over my TV, AC, dishwasher, washer/dryer and loud ass computer.

[Tinykong]

Shouldn't have to wear earplugs, and as far as white noise, I can hear them over my TV, AC, dishwasher, washer/dryer and loud ass computer.

I solved this problem a long time ago by looping the sound of a baby crying through my stereo system, and anytime they made annoying noises, I'd turn it on and leave it on for as long as they were noisy.

Eventually they stopped.

Management complained, and I said "Can't tell my baby to shut up, it's crying because they are being too loud."

Worked like a charm, and no one ever noticed a single guy had no baby.