Kilee’s “Old Man” Guide to CoP Shadowpriest (PVE, CoP only, 6.2.3)

[Kilee25]

I don't disagree, but once you're into mythic the only thing that would stop you is wearing the tier pants, and that's a concious choice because crafted feverflare will last you all the way until manneroth, and they compete for damage with the tier pants if it's a choice between them or dropping below the flayless mark. Picking up the Gorefiend weapon is also a mistake, but there's a weapon just before and just after gorefiend with haste on it. It's just have a little patience, plan your gear out. Avoid the critical items that would break your haste levels. You'll be fine. (Applies to Mythic only, at Heroic level, the crafted gear fills gaps and you can have several non-ideal items and still recover.)

Also, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be as angry as I probably sound. I just feel like people need a little tough love on this subject. I've been thinking for a while that maybe people are using this as an easy excuse to ditch haste and go mastery. But in the process of doing that, they're telling everyone else to do the same. I won't jump into discussions outside of my guide, but if it's in my guide - I'd like to (confidently, not angrily) put my food down. I really do believe in the haste mark, and I truly feel it is the stronger play style until sub-2-min parse modes.

[Djriff]

True, personally i had the problem of not swapping to CoP until we were at Manno and I was playing AS for the majority of that too. Problem for me is the last pieces of gear I need are off the last 2 bosses and with my guild just doing sale runs, i won't see them outside of a coin. So just keep in mind that not everyone has been gearing for CoP or will be in mythic as AS is quite viable until the content is out geared.

Nah it's fine I know you're passionate about it. You go ahead and put your food down :P The haste mark is a real thing so don't worry about people dissing it, i swear by it myself.

[Deleted]

I didn't say "with whatever you can" or whatever you're implying. I'm saying the BIS items that you would get if you just pick them up along the way have enough haste on them already. I can see someone getting incredibly unlucky, but unless it's week 1 of raiding or you got carried through an archi kill or something - you had access to all of those items the entire way through HFC progression. Not picking up the items that results in haste levels means you either passed on them or didn't know they were good for you. And yes, you should fill with crafted items to bridge the gaps - that's what they are there for.

Also, this concept that mastery needs to be at a certain level in such a way that it would take priority over haste is not true, and i'm not sure what you're talking about. CoP is not AS, and mastery is not crit. It's just a stat that scales, and there's no minimum requirement. Yes you want as much as you can get, but it's not better than haste except in very short fights and above the Flayless soft cap. It's unfortunate if the pieces you use don't have mastery, but if it's the best piece of gear you have to fit, then it's still the best.

Look, I'm not saying to drop 20 iLevels to reach 35% haste. I'm saying there's easily-gotten options at literally every point in the RoW+ progression chain in the game to not have to make that choice in the first place.

(For the record, I hate saying 35% because that implies 35% is the right number. I wish there was a better term for it. I wish it wasn't a floating number. But it still doesn't change my opinion on this topic.)

Okay, I see. I have been following this trinket list of yours, but just stopped switching to the heirloom when I got IRP, due to being lazy I assume. I'll try and get so much as possible, and then I can switch between mastery and haste food on demon/non demon bosses, should work wonders!

[Yizu]

I cannot do the rotation at 100ms and 35% in a raid environment. It takes 37%. At 35%, it will go fine for 1-2 DPs, then on the 3rd, it will whiff. I've sat at target dummies outside my garrison, in a pretty much ideal environment, and it still happens. I've seen videos of people doing it at 30%, so I know it is possible, but it doesn't work for me. I do not know why, it just doesn't.

hm weird, its at 37%+ where i miss my shadowfiend window before insanity coz its still almost on 1 sec cd. And sometimes i miss it and go straight into insanity on a raid environment. 34.5 -35% is where i dont feel a micro delay on shadowfiend to use it on CD.

And thats playing on 230 ms, i have my custom lag tolerance at 400, its off, maybe its that?

[Kilee25]

The last time I fiddled with Custom Lag Tolerance, it made it worse. I will try it again tonight.

I know what you are talking about with shadowfiend, but for me it's the lesser of two evils. Delaying shadowfiend by a few seconds is not bad, compared to frequently filling with Mind Flays.

[Catalystics]

Question about :

When Devouring Plague is available to cast, do not to cast it immediately! Rather, hold off casting it until 1 GCD before Mind Blast (or another instant cast spell). You do this so that you can avoid Mind Spiking off the dot that is applied when it is cast. For even more damage, you can follow this up with 2 or 3 instant cast spells. You will occasionally cut off DP’s dots with Mind Spike, either because your instant cast spells are unavailable or you just cast DP at a bad time. If this happens, don't worry about it. It is far more important to always be casting than to lose a few ticks of DP.

So i fiddled with the rotation a bit:
with 2 orbs: MB>DP>insanity(4)>MB>Insanity(4) (in a whole boss fight i miss around 3 or 4 insanitys) but i never cut of dots.
Is this viable? It seems for me i do a bit more dps then ur rotation, but can i calculate how many insanitys i need to miss to let this become absolute/absolete?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...azade/advanced

[Kilee25]

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This quoted text is in the Mindbender section. It is intended to help you with playing with the level 45 talent Mindbender, which prevents you from being able to cast Insanity. There is a youtube video in the same section showing the cast rotation.

The reason for the quoted text is the following:

1. Mindbender is better than Insanity before you have the class trinket.
2. Mind Flay is a DPS loss, and you get more DPS from casting Mind Spike, even if it means clipping Devouring Plague off a target.
3. You can get a little bit of extra damage from Devouring Plague if you time DP in such a way that you can chain a few non-Mind Spike (and non-Mind Flay) spells together after casting it. Valid spells are: Mind Blast, Power Word Shield, Cascade/Halo, and Mindbender. Chaining at least two spells after Devouring Plague is optimal, as one should always be available near each Devouring Plague.

Once you pick up the class trinket, you can start using Insanity as a talent, and there will be a new rotation to learn.

[Catalystics]

.
.
.

This quoted text is in the Mindbender section. It is intended to help you with playing with the level 45 talent Mindbender, which prevents you from being able to cast Insanity. There is a youtube video in the same section showing the cast rotation.

The reason for the quoted text is the following:

1. Mindbender is better than Insanity before you have the class trinket.
2. Mind Flay is a DPS loss, and you get more DPS from casting Mind Spike, even if it means clipping Devouring Plague off a target.
3. You can get a little bit of extra damage from Devouring Plague if you time DP in such a way that you can chain a few non-Mind Spike (and non-Mind Flay) spells together after casting it. Valid spells are: Mind Blast, Power Word Shield, Cascade/Halo, and Mindbender. Chaining at least two spells after Devouring Plague is optimal, as one should always be available near each Devouring Plague.

Once you pick up the class trinket, you can start using Insanity as a talent, and there will be a new rotation to learn.

Aight awesome, awesome
i tried the Mindbender on dummy 32k dps....
then with insanity i get 44kdps.... i do have close to 100%mastery. i dont think mindbender benefits of it?
Sorry for all my questions tho, been a while since i raided on priest

[Djriff]

The only stat that effects Mindbender is haste, so I would go with Insanity as your go to talent.

[Kilee25]

Your target dummy comparisons make no sense. The amount of mastery you have is irrelevent to which talent is better.

Do you have the class trinket? If so I'm gonna hit something. Your entire post seemed to imply that you didn't.

[Djriff]

What? Mastery effects insanity a ton! http://www.wowhead.com/spell=77486/m...mental-anguish

[Catalystics]

Your target dummy comparisons make no sense. The amount of mastery you have is irrelevent to which talent is better.

Do you have the class trinket? If so I'm gonna hit something. Your entire post seemed to imply that you didn't.

I dont have the trinket. But since i have like 100% mastery arent my Insanity casts alot more worth(4xmore then base casts) then Mindbender(24%haste)?

[Kilee25]

Do I really need to go through all of this?

*sigh*

Okay.

Yes, Insanity benefits from Mastery. The GCDs that you would use for Insanity, with Mindbender, are replaced with Mind Spike, which are also affected by Mastery. Mindbender does more damage than Shadowfiend.

Let's imagine there's a scale.



On one side of the scale is the damage Insanity can do, minus the damage from Mind Spike, since the total value of that talent is "extra Insanity damage minus the damage a mind spike would do instead. On the other half of the scale is the damage a Mindbender can do, minus the damage a Shadowfiend can do.

I put these sums on the scale and wait.

The scale tips in the direction of Mindbender.

Theoretically, I could have so much mastery, that the scale starts to balance, perhaps even eventually tip in the other direction.

Problem - that much mastery is not possible to acquire before you hit the 2-piece tier 18 set bonus.

Now, I add the tier 18 2-piece set bonus to the scale and wait.

The Mindbender side dips even lower this time. It hits the bottom of the scale and stays there. It is no longer theoretically possible to have enough mastery to make the scale tip towards the Insanity side. That level of gear does not exist in the game.

Let's take the tier 18 set bonus away, and add DoTWeaving. (DoT damage minus the damage Mind Spike would do.)

The scale will come close to balancing.

However, if I mess up a DoTWeaving cycle, or I enter into a fight that is not pure single target, the scale falls int the direction of Mindbender again. This is a risk vs reward situation, where the scale very easily dips towards Mindbender, but occasionally, if you are really careful, it might be balanced by DoTWeaving (as long as you don't knock the scale or bump the table it's sitting on).

The class trinket makes the scale scenario irrelevant, as that is a different analogy and situation.

If you don't have the class trinket, use Mindbender.

If none of this makes sense to you... just... do whatever you want.

[Shahad]

I made this from Isenthropy's post if you'd like to use it in your guide. I find it easier to follow in picture form, personally.

[marathal]

I've gotten to 35.09% haste, and I am slowly getting it. I get tripped up every so often, try to hit something too soon or a split second to late. But I am happy with how CoP has worked out for me personally. Never thought I would be 9/13 heroic in a current tier, but here I am.

[Kilee25]

All of the trinkets have been adjusted for RPPM error fix. All tier 18 trinkets were revalued manually using simcraft. All legacy trinkets were adjusted up by a flat 10%.

[Zungate]

All of the trinkets have been adjusted for RPPM error fix. All tier 18 trinkets were revalued manually using simcraft. All legacy trinkets were adjusted up by a flat 10%.

Cool. I have a question regarding trinkets. How much value does a socket add? In my case I have a hhfc DSI with a socket, should i still switch to OoV for demons?

[Kilee25]

it adds about 75 pp give or take.

[Clrg]

What ammount of haste you need to pull the insanity + class trinket rotation? i tried it with less than 1k and it was awful, the trinket debuff drop and i need to use mf and at the end i end with a bunch of mf damage.

[Kilee25]

35 to 37 percent, give or take. Turn off custom lag tolerance.