[Guardian] 6.2 Discussion thread

[ikewu83]

thank you guys, let my try tomorrow, HOTW and Mirror do bring some fun to game play

[Exigent]

Hey folks,

I'm looking for some input. I don't feel incredibly strong as a tank currently and that flies in the face of what I've been reading here for some time. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I feel as though I should be a lot less dependent on healers than I currently believe I am.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pQ7cqCBzDFk6rgJK

Off the top of my head, I'm certain that my Pulverize uptime should be significantly higher than it is or I might as well default to another talent. That's certainly one area I need to redouble my efforts on.

Tear me apart so I can pick myself back up and get better

Thanks in advance.

[Valkon]

The biggest issue is that you just aren't using savage defense, like at all. Aside from Mannoroth and Archimonde, there are 4 fights in that log where you didn't use savage defense even once (gorefiend, iskar, xhul and tyrant) and 1 fight where you used it a single time (soc and you're not in the construct).

We can probably nitpick a lot on the rest, but SD is very strong and should be used more rotationally than like a CD as you're doing now. Fix that and you'll be plenty ahead of the pack.

>>I feel as though I should be a lot less dependent on healers than I currently believe I am.

Just to comment there - if you're doing a multistrike heavy build, this is not the case at all, particularly if you don't have a strong beacon in the raid. The healers will have to focus on you more than a mastery build, but you'll have a large buffer to deal with things yourself and they'll have plenty of time to deal with your health if you use SD on a more consistent basis.

[Exigent]

We can probably nitpick a lot on the rest, but SD is very strong and should be used more rotationally than like a CD as you're doing now. Fix that and you'll be plenty ahead of the pack.

Thank you! That's exactly the sort of thing I needed to hear. I'll start using SD more aggressively rather than as a extra CD. Hopefully that'll make the difference that I'm looking for.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Thank you! That's exactly the sort of thing I needed to hear. I'll start using SD more aggressively rather than as a extra CD. Hopefully that'll make the difference that I'm looking for.

A big way of using SD is looking at boss mechanics. When there are no special mechanics in the next few seconds where you need SD. Just spam it. When there is a mechanic upcoming, always keep 1 stack as a safety.
(e.g. Mannoroth combo)

[Exigent]

A big way of using SD is looking at boss mechanics. When there are no special mechanics in the next few seconds where you need SD. Just spam it. When there is a mechanic upcoming, always keep 1 stack as a safety.
(e.g. Mannoroth combo)

Felt a lot better tonight with significantly higher SD usage. Thanks again for the feedback!

[manbearburd]

why are you using berserk when you do? seems to be used at random times often only once in 4ish min fights. Really strong dmg cd should open with it on most fights

[Jellospally]

why are you using berserk when you do? seems to be used at random times often only once in 4ish min fights. Really strong dmg cd should open with it on most fights

Ya I am bad and noticed you are talking about Exigents logs lol nvm.

[mogra]

When do you maul?

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Whenever it lights up.

[Jellospally]

When do you maul?

Whenever you have TnC(when it lights up) or if you aren't tanking use it anyway because you aren't spending rage elsewhere. Or have excess rage. Most bosses you can spam maul on CD and still have enough rage to SD whenever needed.

Just need to get used to what bosses do to you and know what you can and can't do.

[Gothmog]

Just need to get used to what bosses do to you and know what you can and can't do.

50% of tanking right there and hands down TEH biggest difference you can make for your performance. We make a big deal out of what we enchant and gem, but that's because it's easy to talk and compare that. It's not as easy to get that SI up BEFORE you take 80% of your HP in two globals because you have to know it's coming. And yet it's the bigger difference.

[Deleted]

50% of tanking right there and hands down TEH biggest difference you can make for your performance. We make a big deal out of what we enchant and gem, but that's because it's easy to talk and compare that. It's not as easy to get that SI up BEFORE you take 80% of your HP in two globals because you have to know it's coming. And yet it's the bigger difference.

I would actually go so far as to argue that bar pulling end-tier Mythic bosses in a gear bracket that perhaps 0.001% of the raiding population will ever see the boss in, gearing makes such a negligible difference compared to actual player input that you could gem and enchant the worst possible secondary for your spec and still have absolutely no problems killing the boss, presupposing active player input is "correct".

[manbearburd]

I would actually go so far as to argue that bar pulling end-tier Mythic bosses in a gear bracket that perhaps 0.001% of the raiding population will ever see the boss in, gearing makes such a negligible difference compared to actual player input that you could gem and enchant the worst possible secondary for your spec and still have absolutely no problems killing the boss, presupposing active player input is "correct".

definitely agree, even at 10/13m level. ive been stuck with some pretty terrible trinkets (still!) but never felt its a bit deal, and so much of this thread focuses on trinkets

[Rioo]

I feel like gearing stopped mattering in MoP. I quit early DS and began right before SoO launched, so I don't know about early MoP. I just feel like tanks these days with AM, crazy threat modifiers and free attacks are really powerful compared to TBC, WotLK and somewhat Cataclysm. Tanks are always the last ones to die in raids, and I feel like I outgear most encounters before I even down them the first time. I mean healers barely need to heal us anymore, it's all passive healing.

[Dreyen]

Yea.. so much for the tank squish. I wish focus on survival mattered more than just using CDs and externals on big attacks. Timewalker dungeons is where i feel tanking is at it's best state: you take a lot of damage really quickly, and it keeps you on your toes with your AM... although Frenzied regen is ridiculous there.

Feels like there is very little reason to go all-out defensive nowadays.

[Jondar]

Hey guys!

I made a post a while back saying I'm going to be starting to tank. This is my first alt since playing Warlock from 2007 on and I am now entering my third week of tanking. I've been geared up rather quickly, though my first night I tanked Heroic Manno quite easily (super easy fight to tank) and we are now doing Heroic Archi progression. Certainly aren't anywhere near all you Mythic guys, but I do love perfecting my rotation and I'm now getting comfortable enough with the boss mechanics where I can start fine tuning my performance. I'm mostly going in to the fights moving when I need to, taunting when I need to, and mashing random cooldowns when I think I'm going to tank damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&source=2

These are some logs. I've noticed my DPS is low and after reviewing other guys' logs some things I've noticed about my play are:

1. Use Mangle more you fucking dunce.
2. Lacerate more, you fucking dunce.
3. Use SD more? (I tend to use my rage for Frenzied Regen unless it's an add fight and I have a lot of targets on me. Is that correct rage expenditure?)
4. Since my raid has two paladins and there could potentially be a lot of overhealing on me, should I gem/enchant for Multistrike over Mastery? I don't have Anzu's yet but am certainly getting it if it drops.
5. I know I should use pots I'm just not sure when - it seems cooldowns do the same thing. Should I pair agility pots with Berserk instead of armor? My health doesn't really drop low because of physical damage.

I'm staying alive through the fight pretty easily, but very obviously not playing optimally.

[Jellospally]

Hey guys!

I made a post a while back saying I'm going to be starting to tank. This is my first alt since playing Warlock from 2007 on and I am now entering my third week of tanking. I've been geared up rather quickly, though my first night I tanked Heroic Manno quite easily (super easy fight to tank) and we are now doing Heroic Archi progression. Certainly aren't anywhere near all you Mythic guys, but I do love perfecting my rotation and I'm now getting comfortable enough with the boss mechanics where I can start fine tuning my performance. I'm mostly going in to the fights moving when I need to, taunting when I need to, and mashing random cooldowns when I think I'm going to tank damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...mmary&source=2

These are some logs. I've noticed my DPS is low and after reviewing other guys' logs some things I've noticed about my play are:

1. Use Mangle more you fucking dunce.
2. Lacerate more, you fucking dunce.
3. Use SD more? (I tend to use my rage for Frenzied Regen unless it's an add fight and I have a lot of targets on me. Is that correct rage expenditure?)
4. Since my raid has two paladins and there could potentially be a lot of overhealing on me, should I gem/enchant for Multistrike over Mastery? I don't have Anzu's yet but am certainly getting it if it drops.
5. I know I should use pots I'm just not sure when - it seems cooldowns do the same thing. Should I pair agility pots with Berserk instead of armor? My health doesn't really drop low because of physical damage.

I'm staying alive through the fight pretty easily, but very obviously not playing optimally.

1. Obviously mangle on CD no matter what(unless you tanking everything on HFA otherwise you mangle over everything on every fight).
2. Ya this is your filler if mangle is on CD and trash is already up spam this.
3. SD > Frenzy. If you dodge at least 1 melee during SD its better than frenzy. There really isn't a lot of places frenzy is very useful this tier. Its basically oh I have extra rage and all my SDs are gone.... now I frenzy I guess.
4. Even without 2 paladins you can go multistrike. The survival difference isn't that big at all. I did almost all of progression with pure MS and like 1.5k mas without anzus. Sure anzus just makes it joke status but it really isn't that big.
5. Armor pot pre pull and berserk with it as you pull. Armor pot again on another berserk. If you ever HoTW use agi pot for that with berserk/hotw.

[theburned]

1. Obviously mangle on CD no matter what(unless you tanking everything on HFA otherwise you mangle over everything on every fight).
2. Ya this is your filler if mangle is on CD and trash is already up spam this.
3. SD > Frenzy. If you dodge at least 1 melee during SD its better than frenzy. There really isn't a lot of places frenzy is very useful this tier. Its basically oh I have extra rage and all my SDs are gone.... now I frenzy I guess.
4. Even without 2 paladins you can go multistrike. The survival difference isn't that big at all. I did almost all of progression with pure MS and like 1.5k mas without anzus. Sure anzus just makes it joke status but it really isn't that big.
5. Armor pot pre pull and berserk with it as you pull. Armor pot again on another berserk. If you ever HoTW use agi pot for that with berserk/hotw.

why would you agi pot over armor pot ever if armor pot gives you 1500 AP, vs the agility which gives 1000 AP (and a small multiplier on top of that.)

[Jellospally]

why would you agi pot over armor pot ever if armor pot gives you 1500 AP, vs the agility which gives 1000 AP (and a small multiplier on top of that.)

I said Agi pot with HOTW. You get 150% Agi with HOTW.

So you get 2500agi in HOTW which is 2750agi with raid buff/5% static armor buff. Now its 3025 with 10% ap raid buff. Then you need to multiply it by your mastery %. So its around 3.6k ap in my gear.

Whereas armor just gets the 10% ap buff + mastery so its quite low in comparison in HOTW.