When to Haste as arcane.

[Vycaus]

I'm reading some different things in different places. Should i go full chant/gem/gear on haste when I have 2p or 4p?

[Cebel]

Simcraft your character.

[Vycaus]

Sigh, Why does everyone on here think that is just the blanket acceptable response? Why even bother to have these forums to discuss such topics. The value of the 2ps and 4ps interaction with haste is static, thus simming my character in this instance is meaningless, as i'm looking for a consensus as what other mages are thinking and doing.

[Chivolence]

So the path for gearing my guy is

With 2pc, I have quite a bit of haste on my gear so just about 3 haste gems will already put me at the 1300 haste point. Though I sim higher with all haste with unstable magic / pc, SN / PC is only ~300 lower dps with what I think more reliability. I've had pulls where unstable magic has straight up shat on me and some where I've had nearly every blast during a burn on PC proc it. With subjection to already a lot of rng from missiles and 2pc proc from missiles, I'd like a tad less RNG on my plate and an extra spoon of some reliability instead. Simulations are definitely a great way to gauge your performance, but do note its over 100k iterations, and I don't believe anyone pulls nearly that amount of times on any boss. Instead, perhaps put your iterations at 1 and hit simulate about 5 times or how many times you pull per boss ,and see the DPS swing of unstable magic in comparison with SN.

Could be wrong though...
*shrugs*

I haven't acquired Prophecy of Fear yet nor 4pc but those scale better with haste so in that situation, I'll end up going all haste and MAYBE give unstable magic another whirl lol

[Vycaus]

Thats kinda what I was thinking Chiv. I believe unstable magic really picks up with class trinket. I'll prob stay SN/PC till class trinket, but seems like all in on haste at 2p. I'm under the impression the goal is 1800 haste for that break point that gives an extra auto (all though I'm unsure on all the exact haste break points). Also what are people going for OS? I was thinking the heavy haste legs off Mann. With the way gear is scaling this tier no one seems to want to attempt a BIS list

[Deleted]

You should go haste when you got 2p.(Prohpechy is really good with haste aswell, so you should get it)
When you reach 25% haste, dont gem/enchant for more.

So haste(1300rating) > int > haste(25%) > mastery > haste > multi > crit

[Vycaus]

Are you sure mastery is that high? I know that's kinda blasphemous, but almost all the weights i'm seeing are Haste>MS>mastery. So for you example Rixers, it would be Haste (1300)>Int>Haste (25%)>MS>Master>haste>crit. Is this what others are seeing on simcraft as well?

[Deleted]

You should go haste when you got 2p.(Prohpechy is really good with haste aswell, so you should get it)
When you reach 25% haste, dont gem/enchant for more.

So haste(1300rating) > int > haste(25%) > mastery > haste > multi > crit

Can someone explain to me what happens at those haste "breakpoints" at 1300 rating and 25%? Bloodlust GDC-Cap or something alike?

[Vycaus]

As I posted I don't remember what each breakpoint relates to, but summons of our 2p gain additional attacks in much the same way dots used to. Haste increases the frequency of attacks, at the break point they'll gain another attack. This is largely why haste is valued so high

[Invrlose]

Simcraft your character.

Seriously, pls go. There's forums for discussion for a reason. This "blanket answer" doesn't always work especially for something like haste breakpoints.

[Bryanator1989]

Yeah soon as I got 2 set I went haste to 1300 rating. I tried out UM but it was meh compared to supernova. I'll wait till 4 set or class trinket and try again.

[Deleted]

t18 4p (class trinket has little to do with haste scaling)

[Frost1129]

Simcraft your character.

Everyone else is going to give you bullshit. This is the right answer.

You either figure it out for your specific gear setup, or you use the general trends given and accept that you might be applying them incorrectly or failing to take into account subtleties your gear introduce that makes those general trends wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Seriously, pls go. There's forums for discussion for a reason. This "blanket answer" doesn't always work especially for something like haste breakpoints.

Simming yourself is literally the anti-blanket anwser. It's telling you "find the anwser right for you, not the general anwser"

[Imnick]

Simming your character is the only way to know for sure whether or not you should be prioritising haste, everything else is just guesswork based on discoveries that were found... using simcraft.
Why use simcraft by proxy and get inaccurate results instead of just doing it yourself?

[drjbi]

Can someone explain to me what happens at those haste "breakpoints" at 1300 rating and 25%? Bloodlust GDC-Cap or something alike?

I'm not completely sure, but i could imagine it has sth to do with the heroes' (2pc spawns) number of attacks

[Deleted]

I'm not completely sure, but i could imagine it has sth to do with the heroes' (2pc spawns) number of attacks

Indeed. Gives them an extra attack. Problem is, their attacks sometimes delay, so it's not exact.

[kirielle]

Seriously, pls go. There's forums for discussion for a reason. This "blanket answer" doesn't always work especially for something like haste breakpoints.

It actually does, because with SimulationCraft you can do scaling plots and figure out exactly where those haste breakpoints are for your character, alongside the other stats.

On which note though, I haven't figured out how to make the graph more readable? I had to save to HTML and then zoom in and count the lines manually, it was very annoying. :-/

[gallamann]

Why the mass push for people to use Sim to see for Arcane haste break?

Folks certainly had no issue stating 900 rating for Haste and Fire 4pc, the 900 being a "safe" number to account for latency and response time.

Can't the same thing be stated about class trinket and 2pc for Arcane?

[Komman]

Why the mass push for people to use Sim to see for Arcane haste break?

Folks certainly had no issue stating 900 rating for Haste and Fire 4pc, the 900 being a "safe" number to account for latency and response time.

Can't the same thing be stated about class trinket and 2pc for Arcane?

Because the "900 value" was honestly wrong, and tons of people were getting heartpain over "only having 850 haste". It was fairly amusing hearing someone call Dutch a liar because he said "getting 800 haste is fine" instead of "900 haste, as the guides say". There were also plenty of posts on bnet forums saying 900 haste was a breakpoint, when honestly it wasn't.

Also, the pets have really weird casting and attack initiation delays that nullify the effect of this breakpoint anyway. It's different at every level of haste, depends on the player, and has lots of unknowns. The only way to find out how it works is to count how many attacks your pets are getting off in raids. Honestly, I wouldn't even say there's really a breakpoint with 2T18 in practice.

Haste is the tier 1 stat for T18 not just because Temporal Heroes don't scale with mastery, but also because of increased 4T18 Temporal Power buff uptime. This has nothing to do with breakpointing.

[vvaniish]

Haste is the tier 1 stat for T18 not just because Temporal Heroes don't scale with mastery, but also because of increased 4T18 Temporal Power buff uptime. This has nothing to do with breakpointing.

Also it can potentially allow you to fit in more casts in to the doom trinket, make UM(which is great with the class trinket) more powerful etc...