The Left: Liberal =/= Progressive

[Everwake]

I've never understood people's needs to label each other. It just leads to gang mentality.

[Deleted]

The way it's thrown around by the right, I was under the impression it was a political slur. If you're not an ultra conservitive in lock step with the far right of the republican establishment they're always throwing the Liberal slur at you. Call me liberal, when it's thrown at me by some insane person I'll wear the label proudly.

Yes, it's bizarre.

Classical liberalism is pretty close to the libetarianism espoused by some Tea Party type conservatives. The intellectual gurus of their beliefs - thinkers like Hayek and Friedman - are firmly in that liberal tradition (although it did also branch to the left).

And the origin of the word comes from liberty. Why do American Conservatives hate freedom?

I don't know whether to be dismayed at their stupidity in denigrating a word they should be fighting to embrace, or impressed that their doublespeak has taken root over the Atlantic.

It's quite Orwellian, Freedom is Slavery and Ignorance is Strength.

No idea if the video says any of that. I'm reluctant to spend 1 hour finding out.

[Raeph]

Yes, it's bizarre.

Classical liberalism is pretty close to the libetarianism espoused by some Tea Party type conservatives. The intellectual gurus of their beliefs - thinkers like Hayek and Friedman - are firmly in that liberal tradition (although it did also branch to the left).

And the origin of the word comes from liberty. Why do American Conservatives hate freedom?

My two cents, for what it is worth; I've noticed that there seems to be two kinds of "Conservatives" that dislike liberalism.

Conservative one is more of a fundamentalist than anything else. This may take the form of Christian Fundamentalism, but it can be absent of religion and boil down to "we've always done it like this and it doesn't need to change." Liberalism to them means radical change without concern for past methods that still appear to work in practical application. Closest I can think of in this vein is John McCain.

Conservative two is a fiscal minimalist. They believe that we as a society, the government in particular, spends too much money in general on programs and interventions that it should not be involved in. This may be infrastructure, healthcare programs, welfare, education spending and warfare. Liberalism to them means unchecked and wasteful spending that prevents the private sector from responding to social needs as individuals express felt needs in the society. This would be Ron Paul or Tom Coburn.

Me personally I don't care for the progressive agenda, of the far right or far left variety, because all their solutions to problems seem to take the "government force" approach. I much rather prefer solutions of the private-public partnership model, with private sector providing part of the funding and manpower, government providing the oversight and extending loan guarantees for supplemental investment capital, or just paying for it out right, in the case of critical infrastructure projects.

Such a model though requires a government open to public scrutiny.

[Zython]

A nice explanation from Sargon that "Progressive" is not a synonym for "Liberal",
despite both beeing a "Leftist" view and therefor the media uses the terms interchangeably.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH0mPfR-K2U

quite long with over 1 hour, but it is very informative, if you care the slightest about well... our life.

Yes, I'm going to listen to the guy who has no knowledge of the occurrences during the Bush administration. Maybe you could link the opinion of someone who became politically aware BEFORE Benghazi?

- - - Updated - - -

Gimme a second to respond here...need to watch an hour video first.

Shakespeare once said that brevity is the soul of wit.

[Rukh]

I've never understood people's needs to label each other. It just leads to gang mentality.

Anti-labelists like you are whats wrong with America.

[KrazyK923]

Yes, I'm going to listen to the guy who has no knowledge of the occurrences during the Bush administration. Maybe you could link the opinion of someone who became politically aware BEFORE Benghazi?

We have our first winner, folks. That strawman though. Utterly predictable but also hilariously childish.

Lo and behold, today was the day that all the butts were hurt.

[Zython]

We have our first winner, folks. That strawman though. Utterly predictable but also hilariously childish.

Lo and behold, today was the day that all the butts were hurt.

It's not a strawman. I've actually conversed with him on Twitter. He had no clue what I was talking about when I brought up various criminal doing of the administration.

[KrazyK923]

Unless you can provide proof, you're perhaps the most biased source possible to your claim.

[Zython]

Unless you can provide proof, you're perhaps the least unbiased source possible to your claim.

I'm already dealing with one stalker here, I don't need another.

Here's the thing. Unlike you, I haven't lied before. So I think my word carries a LITTLE more weight.

[KrazyK923]

I'm already dealing with one stalker here, I don't need another.

Here's the thing. Unlike you, I haven't lied before. So I think my word carries a LITTLE more weight.

Sorry pal that isn't how it works. Furthermore you might want to step down off your pedestal if you think I'd start "stalking" you on Twitter. Eating Cheetos in my underwear would be a better use of my time.

But since you're unwilling to support your claim I'm just going to dismiss it like the falsehood, or severe twisting of the facts, that I believe it probably is.

The sheer pomposity never ceases to amaze me with you and your ilk. Thanks for the contribution to my sig.

Edit: By the by, it took me all but 2 seconds to search the name "Zython" on Twitter and find who I suspect is you. The first couple tweets are gold mines, but you're not anything to write home about SJW wise. So yeah, I think I'm going to go eat Cheetos in my underwear.

[Zython]

Sorry pal that isn't how it works.

Seems to work fine for you.

Furthermore you might want to step down off your pedestal if you think I'd start "stalking" you on Twitter. Eating Cheetos in my underwear would be a better use of my time.

Yeah, Post said the same thing.

But since you're unwilling to support your claim I'm just going to dismiss it like the falsehood, or severe twisting of the facts, that I believe it probably is.

That's fine. You would have accused me of doctoring the tweets anyhow. It should still be there (provided Sargon hasn't deleted them in humiliation). You should be able to find them if you have a basic understand of major political events from 2000-2008.

The sheer pomposity never ceases to amaze me with you and your ilk.

What can I say? My time is simply more valuable than yours. *shrug*

[KrazyK923]

Seems to work fine for you.

All the strawmen! All of them! You get a strawman, and you, and you!

Yeah, Post said the same thing.

Shockingly, and stay with me here, every single person is different. I know. A wild notion.

That's fine. You would have accused me of doctoring the tweets anyhow. It should still be there (provided Sargon hasn't deleted them in humiliation). You should be able to find them if you have a basic understand of major political events from 2000-2008.

No, sorry. That isn't how it works brosephiroth. You have to prove the shit you claim. I'm not going to go trolling through your timeline, thus proving your random accusation that I'd start stalking you, to look for specific tweets in an undisclosed timeline. Furthermore I don't think my brain can take all the loop-de-loop circle logic even if I WANTED to do that. Kudos for the second strawman in your tiny post, though. I'm interested in why you think I would say you doctored a Tweet? I've never claimed has happened once.

What can I say? My time is simply more valuable than yours. *shrug*

Hahaha, you do you, gurl. It's a thing of beauty. Just keep spouting more stuff like this and I'll be a happy camper.

[Zython]

Shockingly, and stay with me here, every single person is different. I know. A wild notion.

Nah, you're not as special as you think you are.

No, sorry. That isn't how it works bro. You have to prove the shit you claim.

I've provided just as much proof as you've ever provided to me when I asked. I think that's fair.

I'm not going to go trolling through your timeline, thus proving your random accusation that I'd start stalking you, to look for specific tweets in an undisclosed timeline.

That's why you can look through Sargon's timeline.

One thing I don't get is why you're so obsessed with Sargon? He's not going to sleep with you, you know.

[KrazyK923]

Nah, you're not as special as you think you are.

That's only reserved for you.

I've provided just as much proof as you've ever provided to me when I asked. I think that's fair.

So, good. You're talking out of your ass. Got it.

That's why you can look through Sargon's timeline.

One thing I don't get is why you're so obsessed with Sargon? He's not going to sleep with you, you know.

Ah, damn. My casual viewing of his channel for the last few months have all been for naught then! I thought he was going to leave his wife or girlfriend, his baby, and travel to the US, choose to be gay (Because it totally obviously is a choice, amirite? Doesn't that fit the stereotypical group you like to lump me in with?) and make sweet love to me all night long for the rest of eternity.

Dear god. You just keep topping yourself with each post. It's great. At least now I know that "asking for proof of a claim" is tantamount to "obsessed." Like I said earlier, we have our first winner here, folks. At least Wells didn't come out of the gate blargeflargle posting.

[Post]

Yeah, Post said the same thing.

I'd just like to say I didn't actually say this. Not really sure where you got this idea from but calling KrazyK a liar and then lying is pretty telling. Not like I even need to demonstrate your character to him but hey.

[Deleted]

I'd just like to say I didn't actually say this. Not really sure where you got this idea from but calling KrazyK a liar and then lying is pretty telling. Not like I even need to demonstrate your character to him but hey.

I don't know who Zython is. I don't know who you, or the other guy with the Dr. Wily avatar are. I don't really care.

I watched a bit of the video in the first post. It is long, I only watched the beginning.

I don't know who Sargon is from that video, but he makes more sense than most people on this forum, especially the confused and infantile SJWs and "leftist progressives".

I will try to watch the whole thing and comment on it a bit later, I agree with him on the freedom stuff, and the affirmative action stuff.

EDIT: I'm not at the part of the linked video that talks about "identity politics."

I agree with this Sargon guy completely on this particular point. Identity politics is at the core of what is wrong with the left-wingers these days.

"The progressive stack" <-- exactly what is wrong, getting "bumped up the list of who is allowed to express yourself if you come from a previously oppressed gender/race/etc", this concept of "privilege" etc

This is the logic that Black Lives Matter used to interrupt and hijack Bernie Sanders during that speech.

Idiotic, childish, dangerous.

[KrazyK923]

I don't know who Zython is. I don't know who you, or the other guy with the Dr. Wily avatar are. I don't really care.

I don't know who you, or the other guy with the Dr. Wily avatar are. I don't really care.

the other guy with the Dr. Wily avatar are.

Dr. Wily avatar

Dr. Wily

You sonofabitch!

[Zython]

I'd just like to say I didn't actually say this. Not really sure where you got this idea from but calling KrazyK a liar and then lying is pretty telling. Not like I even need to demonstrate your character to him but hey.

You know, the fact that you came out of nowhere to whine about my posts kind of proves my point about you being a stalker, right?

[Deleted]

You sonofabitch!

Is it the guy from Sonic? I can't remember this stuff, it was too long ago

[KrazyK923]

You know, the fact that you came out of nowhere to whine about my posts kind of proves my point about you being a stalker, right?

Public forums aren't public, after all. It's not like every time a post is made, it shoots the thread to the top on the front page. Right? Oh, wait...

You do a fantastic job at seeing things that aren't there. I suppose you'll just declare that he's stalking you without actually providing proof. Or are you taking a page from St. Anita's playbook and deciding people disagreeing with you in multiple, public, places is stalking or harassment. I suppose you're too busy to provide proof while you're calling people liars in other threads.

Oh shit, I'm stalking you too now, I think. I saw another popular thread and you were participating in it! That's stalking!

Is it the guy from Sonic? I can't remember this stuff, it was too long ago

Haha, yes. It's Dr. Robotnik.