Are you a prepper?

[Gamdwelf]

I want to be but I don't have the necessary stuff yet.

[Caolela]

This topic is about the end of life as we know it. How likely is it that you think that society will collapse in your lifetime? Are you prepared for such an event if/when it occurs?

Well, if what people like Dr. Guy McPherson says is true, the end of humanity for the most part will be only another 15 years or so (by 2030-40) due to climate change/global warming. According to the data he has cited from many unassailable sources and has concluded, rising temperatures won't kill humans from being unlivable but will kill flora and fauna from the inability to adapt fast enough to the rapidly rising temps we've already seen, and will become worse. If that happens, then the majority of humanity's food supply will be gone. Enough extinct plant species and we and other animals won't eat.

Already we're losing 150-200 flora & fauna species every day to extinction, for various reasons. Another issue is ocean plankton is down by 50-60%. If there is not enough plankton then the bottom of the aquatic food chain is crippled and so are the higher parts of the chain which means no seafood. I'd add myself that also we have Fukushima killing and contaminating vast stretches of the Pacific - still spewing radiation 4.5 years later - that you don't hear governments even talking about.

He has said that he's heard from some like Steve Wozniak (Apple guru) that because of this forecast, Woz has already gone to Australia, since the Southern Hemisphere may be safer for a few years longer than the Northern. Even so, it'll eventually be inescapable.

Am I prepared? Hell no, not in the material sense because one, I don't have the wherewithal to do it to any sufficient degree that would matter, and two, if it's inevitable then why prolong the misery a few months longer?

Two ways to look at this if it's true: 1) you can go into Mad Max mode, where nothing holds you back from taking everything and anything you can for yourself and to hell with anyone else around you, knowing that then others will be forced to do the same and it's going to be a very rough scenario. Or 2) you can try to make life as decent and bearable as possible for yourself and others by cooperation and consideration, where at least there's a chance for a somewhat better, less violent existence for however long it lasts.

[PC2]

Well, if what people like Dr. Guy McPherson says is true, the end of humanity for the most part will be only another 15 years or so (by 2030-40) due to climate change/global warming. According to the data he has cited from many unassailable sources and has concluded, rising temperatures won't kill humans from being unlivable but will kill flora and fauna from the inability to adapt fast enough to the rapidly rising temps we've already seen, and will become worse. If that happens, then the majority of humanity's food supply will be gone. Enough extinct plant species and we and other animals won't eat.

The temperature rise is only an average. Some places will get colder, hotter, more rain, less rain, etc. There is no evidence that most crop types will no longer be viable for food production. You should really stop paying attention to this fear monger.

[Lava Bucket]

Guy McPherson sounds like another doomsday crackpot to me.

[Caolela]

The temperature rise is only an average. Some places will get colder, hotter, more rain, less rain, etc. There is no evidence that most crop types will no longer be viable for food production. You should really stop listening to this fear monger.

There is plenty of evidence for this, but you apparently haven't listened to the data. Unless you can come up with a way to either stop the species extinction or get them to grow in climates that they never have by natural selection, and in massive amounts enough to supply current needs, there is no other conclusion to be drawn.

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Guy McPherson sounds like another doomsday crackpot to me.

Seriously, he's not. Yeah it sounds crazy BUT go look at the data that he himself didn't come up with. He's only done secondary research, which is collecting the existing data from the world's best sources to date (gov't, university, Pentagon/military, official sources).

[Moralgy]

I would just end up dead to something else or by my own hands if this were to happen.

[PC2]

Unless you can come up with a way to either stop the species extinction

Human civilization does not fundamentally require all the species that currently exist on the planet. We should try to preserve everything. We should also not eco-doomsay about a collapse in 15 years with very little evidence for that prediction.

or get them to grow in climates that they never have by natural selection

Seriously? Please read about the history and current distribution of crops, grain family crops are a good one.

and in massive amounts enough to supply current needs, there is no other conclusion to be drawn.

I'm not arguing the "current needs" part. I'm arguing the extinction part. Even the "majority" loss wording could very easily be inaccurate, he is doing a lot of geusswork.

[Lava Bucket]

There is plenty of evidence for this, but you apparently haven't listened to the data. Unless you can come up with a way to either stop the species extinction or get them to grow in climates that they never have by natural selection, and in massive amounts enough to supply current needs, there is no other conclusion to be drawn.

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Seriously, he's not. Yeah it sounds crazy BUT go look at the data that he himself didn't come up with. He's only done secondary research, which is collecting the existing data from the world's best sources to date (gov't, university, Penatgon/military, official sources).

I don't dispute his data, but I do take issue with his interpretation of the data. I doubt that the community of climatologists have all got it wrong and this one dude somehow sees something they don't. Also, McPherson doesn't bother to lay out a scientific analysis of the data, he does a lot of hand-waving and says, "Boom, Armageddon." It's convincing if you don't interpret data for a living, perhaps. I happen to interpret data for a living and found his research to be rather shallow.

Where are his peer-reviewed journal articles? Anyone can write a book and give a Powerpoint presentation.

[Caolela]

Human civilization does not fundamentally require all the species that currently exist on the planet. We should try to preserve everything. We should also not eco-doomspeak about a collapse in 15 years with very little evidence for that prediction.



Seriously? Please read about the history and current distribution of crops, grain family crops are a good one.



I'm not arguing the "current needs" part. I'm arguing the extinction part. Even the "majority" wording could easily be inaccurate.

Once again, PC, you're talking through your ass like I've seen you do on so many other threads. You're making giant assumptions that you have no basis for, since I'm sure you haven't seen the data that has been extant for some time now. It isn't from doomsday nutjobs, it's from reputable gov't sources, military, and others as I said above. McPherson has simply done the next step, collated and extrapolated, which undoubtedly many others have done behind the scenes, and then gone public with it which our gov'ts have not yet done.

[dope_danny]

Depends what you mean. Like preparedness in general or crackpot "the coming collapse is yesterday" stuff. In England the biggest survivable disasters would be an EMP or a untreatable Pandemic and INNAWOODS is really your best bet according to most survival experts. Personally i have a 'bug out bag' so to speak with basic wilderness supplies, torch and universal manual pump kinetic charger and so on, but thats it really and i never plan to use it. But better to have in case something truly unlikely does occur than be the dude that goes "lol take my tin foil" who ends up caught in some riot at a supermarket in a mass panic or something.

[Santti]

Prepper? I guess that's a word. I find them to be rather... stupid, in somewhat hilariously sad kind of way, and I facepalm every time I see that crap on TV. Why on earth would I waste all of that time building and stocking bunkers and learning all of those survival skills when I have no desire to ever use them unless the worst has happened. Pointless to worry and prepare for end of the world scenarios.

[Caolela]

I don't dispute his data, but I do take issue with his interpretation of the data. I doubt that the community of climatologists have all got it wrong and this one dude somehow sees something they don't. Also, McPherson doesn't bother to lay out a scientific analysis of the data, he does a lot of hand-waving and says, "Boom, Armageddon." It's convincing if you don't interpret data for a living, perhaps. I happen to interpret data for a living and found his research to be rather shallow.

Where are his peer-reviewed journal articles? Anyone can write a book and give a Powerpoint presentation.

Is it his job to have peer-reviewed other's data, which itself seems to have been done already? Given what is available, I don't see how you can conclude other than what he has.

Well, you can believe or conclude what you'd like, but I find it very hard to disagree with what he's said.

[Gamdwelf]

Prepper? I guess that's a word. I find them to be rather... stupid, in somewhat hilariously sad kind of way, and I facepalm every time I see that crap on TV. Why on earth would I waste all of that time building and stocking bunkers and learning all of those survival skills when I have no desire to ever use them unless the worst has happened. Pointless to worry and prepare for end of the world scenarios.

That is the whole point is if the worst happens.

[Rooflesstoofless]

I don't see the point to prepping in most cases.

EDIT: It makes sense to have extra food and water on hand because water mains break, hurricanes and earthquakes happen, etc...but what I consider preppers are those total societal collapse folks that are just diluting themselves.

[PC2]

Once again, PC, you're talking through your ass like I've seen you do on so many other threads. You're making giant assumptions that you have no basis for, since I'm sure you haven't seen the data that has been extant for some time now. It isn't from doomsday nutjobs, it's from reputable gov't sources, military, and others as I said above. McPherson has simply done the next step, collated and extrapolated, which undoubtedly many others have done behind the scenes, and then gone public with it which our gov'ts have not yet done.

You're right. It is up to me to present you with irrefutable evidence that the "end of humanity" isn't 15 years away. I was being silly.

[Santti]

That is the whole point is if the worst happens.

Well, duh.

[Lava Bucket]

Is it his job to have peer-reviewed other's data, which itself seems to have been done already? Given what is available, I don't see how you can conclude other than what he has.

Well, you can believe or conclude what you'd like, but I find it very hard to disagree with what he's said.

Ok, but you really need a degree in climatology to properly conclude anything from the data. I'm a biochemist, so I can sort of follow along and notice where conclusions are probably correct or when he's over-reaching. But I would still defer to the experts who are trained over a period of years to know what the climate data is telling us.

Also, when Primary Colors and I agree on something, we're probably right. I mean how often does that happen?

[Witchblade77]

been lurking on MMO champ for a while now, but actualy had to register for this thread.

I would consider myself a prepper. but I don't prep for end of the world. if world as we know it ends? whether its worldwide epidemic or anything else... (and that's a BIG if) life will be so different, IF it survives, that I'm not sure how you can even prep long term for that.

however. my family's been through some crap. real crap, localized crap that can happen to anyone. electricity going out for couple of weeks at a time, in a snowstorm (happened just last year) long term job losses (how many people have been out of work long enough to lose their unemployment? how many foreclosures happened becasue of income loss?) medical emergencies, broken down roads, bank system glitching out and closing down, so I have no access to bank account for a while, and so on and so forth. these things? they can happen to anyone. so those are my contingencies. what do I do if i cannot buy food for a while (whether due to lost job, or blocked roads)? what do I do if my refrigerator dies (whether its loss of electricity, or it just breaks down) and I cannot getting repaired/replaced right away? what do I do if I get hurt in a middle of the night and help is minutes, or hours away? what do I do if my house is being broken into and cops are at least half an hour away? what about fire? I'm careful, but shit can still happen and it will take firefighters time to get to me, meanwhile - fire works faster than they drive. what if something happens that I have to leave my house quickly - do I have an emergency bag ready? and so on, and so forth.

life is full of potential emergencies. people scoff on prepping "oh these people are just conspiracy nuttjobs" and yet... even our government, finally after a few disasters they couldn't quite manage to handle is now recommending for people to "gasp" prep. get their bug out bags done, have other contingencies, have week's worth of water, and so on and so forth.

prepping is not a dirty word and prepping doesn't mean stockpiling some stuff, some guns and ammo and feeling like you are good to go. and yeah, I love the fact that you go from "some supplies" directly to "emergency bunker" I'm in between that. living my life to the fullest now, but prepping is more than a hobby. its a necessity born of bad shit happening before. I prep for the same reason I have home, car and medical insurance - becasue I'd rather not have to use them, but in case I need to (and because I cannot control the world, only my actions in it, the likelihood of actualy needing one or more is pretty high)? I have them

P.S. for me its also not about surviving. its preferably surviving in relative comfort. sure you can survive with only a few basic tools. sure you can survive on ramen noodles and beans for a while. but why would you want to if you could be comfortable instead?

[Deleted]

why do I need to prepare, I'll just take what I want from other people less able to defend themselves.

[Xargoth6634]

I keep extra cans of food and water on hand, but it's more of an issue of being practical than expecting impending disaster. I certainly don't have enough to last more than a couple of weeks max.