Preach on LFR

[Wingspan]

The true question here is how to make LFR more fun?
Making it harder is fun for some and annoying for others...but it could give people a sense of progression and making the overall experience a nice challenge.
The RNG drops are also annoying. Valor points seems like a good start to make it more fun.

Also Mythic Dungeos seems like a nice place for LFR players to go and have fun with LFR gear in search of upgrades.

People should come up with more ideas of how to make LFR more fun. LFR is here to stay.

Just checking... did they actually make Mythic Dungeons easy enough to be done by the bulk of the LFR crowd? (I haven't been in any.)


And don't you need a pre-made group for Mythic Dungeons? If so, people not doing pre-mades for raiding generally won't be doing it for dungeons... so it would not be an effective substitute (or progression path).


The Valor thing is kind of a non-issue though. Since it is entirely possible to ration out the Valor to match the same rate of gear acquisition as random drops, it really would not change anything other than maybe having a psychological impact. (If I were doing LFR, I would prefer a steady pace, but a lot of people like the feel of random better.) As long as the things time out the same, it does not matter much though.

[Deleted]

And don't you need a pre-made group for Mythic Dungeons? If so, people not doing pre-mades for raiding generally won't be doing it for dungeons... so it would not be an effective substitute (or progression path).

If Mythic Dungeons dungeons fails to interest the LFR crowd then they are useless.
Who is going to run them? Normal raiders? Doesn't the loot of Mythic Dungeons is equivalent to normal raids?

They seem to be a good start for LFR players who actually want a challenge in something that is not raiding.
A dungeon is always faster and easier to form a group.

I'm very much interested in them...maybe i'll resubscribe just to try them out.

[Wingspan]

If Mythic Dungeons dungeons fails to interest the LFR crowd then they are useless.
Who is going to run them? Normal raiders? Doesn't the loot of Mythic Dungeons is equivalent to normal raids?

They seem to be a good start for LFR players who actually want a challenge in something that is not raiding.
A dungeon is always faster and easier to form a group.

I'm very much interested in them...maybe i'll resubscribe just to try them out.

I think they ended up being kind of useless, which is probably why they are putting the Valor stuff in there.


This is kind of why I think they may be considering multiple progression paths for Legion. They basically CAN'T have multiple Raid and Dungeon tiers and have it not royally screw progression paths with the old "mandatory" line of thinking.


They either give dungeons good gear or not.

If it is GOOD, it does LFR an injustice if it is TOO good... AND it makes it harder to settle on what difficulty LFR should be to compensate.

If it is NOT GOOD, no one will go there after leveling.

If it is VERY GOOD, it will become "mandatory" content for raiders.



It's freakishly complex to find the right balance.

[Nightstalker]

Preach is a colossal dick and bad human being and if WoW was designed in his vision then subs would drop to 300k.

Keep feeding him with reasons why is argumentation is flawless and oh so perfect. The guy is really on a roll right now.

[Supercool]

It's freakishly complex to find the right balance.

The big wrenches in the system are Tanaan gear and PVP gear. Legion will be ditching PVP gear so hopefully they just don't do a repeat of the Tanaan situation.

[Wingspan]

The big wrenches in the system are Tanaan gear and PVP gear. Legion will be ditching PVP gear so hopefully they just don't do a repeat of the Tanaan situation.

Although they are technically ditching PvP gear, that does not technically mean they are ditching the concept of rewarding gear for PvP content (although maybe they said something to contradict this... I haven't kept up on the PvP side of things in years).


They could just as easily hand out raid level gear for PvP activities if they wanted to. They would just need to make sure that doing PvP was not required to raid, which could be done a number of ways.

[Kardagh]

There is no debate.

Blizzard have said LFR is not going anywhere. If anything they should reintroduce actual tier sets (at a reduced power of course) to LFR to give an incentive for people.

[MoanaLisa]

Just checking... did they actually make Mythic Dungeons easy enough to be done by the bulk of the LFR crowd? (I haven't been in any.)

No. Mythic dungeons are really not for the LFR crowd. They also require a pre-made group. I can't even begin to imagine picking five random players from an LFR group--tank, healer, three DPS--setting them down in a Mythic dungeon and expecting a successful run.

[Seezer]

And likely prosper

Yeah, the game sure is prospering with LFR.

[PosPosPos]

No. Mythic dungeons are really not for the LFR crowd. They also require a pre-made group. I can't even begin to imagine picking five random players from an LFR group--tank, healer, three DPS--setting them down in a Mythic dungeon and expecting a successful run.

I can't see why not - unless your definition of a successful run is no wipes/deaths and around some speedrun-esque timing.

If the group has HFC LFR gear levels(or even lower for that matter), there's no reason the run can't be successful if they just pull one pack at a time and slowly down each boss methodically.

[MoanaLisa]

Yeah, the game sure is prospering with LFR.

Raiding generally hasn't been a lot of help has it?

If Mythic Dungeons dungeons fails to interest the LFR crowd then they are useless. Who is going to run them?

The audience for Mythic Dungeons are those that want more difficult dungeon content that's not a timed run. They are fun with a good group.

[Seezer]

Preach is a colossal dick and bad human being and if WoW was designed in his vision then subs would drop to 300k.

You're a colossal dick and a bad human being.

That holds about as much weight as what you just said.

And don't throw stupid numbers out.

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Raiding generally hasn't been a lot of help has it?


The audience for Mythic Dungeons are those that want more difficult dungeon content that's not a timed run. They are fun with a good group.

Been alot of help with what? Raiding has been in the game since the beginning.

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If a typical player runs LFR and never gets out into organized raiding, why exactly does that matter? Because raiders--who constantly profess their willingness to do anything, anything at all to support their guild and raid group--don't really mean that when they say it? If the Raid Finder type of player never bothers with any other form of raiding why should anyone care? They won't have the achievements to advance to anything.
How is this not "Well, I deserve that and they don't."

Just curious really. I don't really care either way.

Don't speak for "Raiders". People love to throw out these generalizations. There isn't just one group of people who raid. There are many, many different types. Yes, the top guilds that WILL do anything to support their guild will continue doing just that. But don't make any mistake about it. That is not your average raider. So yes, people do mean what they say. And quit lumping everyone into 1 category "Raiders". That's so vague and broad you may as well not even use it.

[Glorious Leader]

Yeah, the game sure is prospering with LFR.

Its also sure prospering with mythic

[Sansnom]

Been alot of help with what? Raiding has been in the game since the beginning.

With the subs numbers? I mean that is I assume you was referring with your remark regarding LFR.

I do not share your views that the game subs increasing were to the lack of LFR and the subsequent decline were due to the introduction of LFR.

[Baconeggcheese]

No. Mythic dungeons are really not for the LFR crowd. They also require a pre-made group. I can't even begin to imagine picking five random players from an LFR group--tank, healer, three DPS--setting them down in a Mythic dungeon and expecting a successful run.

Why is that?

Mythic dungeons are only mythic in name, they are just heroic dungeons scaled up for the higher ilvls in an attempt to get more life out of the dungeons. They have no additional mechanics afaik.

If you were capable of doing heroic dungeons without over gearing them, there's absolutely no reason that a group couldn't do mythic dungeons in LFR gear. It should feel exactly like heroic dungeons at the beginning of the xpac.

[Deja Thoris]

Why is that?

Mythic dungeons are only mythic in name, they are just heroic dungeons scaled up for the higher ilvls in an attempt to get more life out of the dungeons. They have no additional mechanics afaik.

If you were capable of doing heroic dungeons without over gearing them, there's absolutely no reason that a group couldn't do mythic dungeons in LFR gear. It should feel exactly like heroic dungeons at the beginning of the xpac.

But they don't feel like that. Stuff hurts a lot more proportional to your health pool imo.

[Lumineus]

I feel like the tuning of some mythic dungeons is on par with lower heroic HFC, if not harder. The loot that drops is not really commensurate with the effort, it should start at 705, not have that be the -average- -warforged- ilvl. Skyreach in particular is a royal bitch. Probably wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't added those stupid birds that cross aggro large packs with healers and then punt the tank off the side of the instance.

[Apexis]

Just checking... did they actually make Mythic Dungeons easy enough to be done by the bulk of the LFR crowd? (I haven't been in any.)

And don't you need a pre-made group for Mythic Dungeons? If so, people not doing pre-mades for raiding generally won't be doing it for dungeons... so it would not be an effective substitute (or progression path).

I have zero reason to want to bother with trying to spam trade or the group finder to do dungeons that I had already done on a heroic modes months before. Maybe if they were not lazy in their development and actually made newer dungeons that I have yet to go into that might be far more of a reason to bother to spam, but it is not. The gear itself is not enough carrot for me to want to bother. This is why I don't bother with Timewalker dungeons when they are available the mounts are not enough to want to spend time grind through content with people that have never been in those dungeons while they were current or I spammed them so much back in the day for badges and points until I simply could not stand them any longer.

Mystic dungeons are like Mystic raiding. They are the same content jacked up with higher ilevel gear, nothing more, except the Mystic raids drop a mount. Many people simply find doing multiple grind of the same exact content boring. Difficulty alone is just not enough of a carrot for many to want to bother. Blizzard needs to go back to adding content at least every couple patches or so. This trying to make people endlessly grind through the same shit for a different carrot each time is just not enough for many people.

[Osmeric]

I feel like the tuning of some mythic dungeons is on par with lower heroic HFC, if not harder. The loot that drops is not really commensurate with the effort, it should start at 705, not have that be the -average- -warforged- ilvl. Skyreach in particular is a royal bitch. Probably wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't added those stupid birds that cross aggro large packs with healers and then punt the tank off the side of the instance.

Huh, I didn't notice that. Anyway, the only part of Skyreach I found that challenging when I did it (for a guildmate's JC recipe run) was the penultimate boss with the adds that make ash piles. We ended up just dotting the boss and kiting the adds. We outgeared it some, I'll admit, but I did get a drop I could use.

[stomination]

I am not sure if this is the exact quote you mention, but it brings the same message...

"LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR."


Source:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ine-Blue-Posts

We saw larger raids because there were far less tiers.

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But anyways I'm doing lfr while typing stuff on mmo while my character auto attacks the boss.

Thank god for lfr where I can do my legendary quest on my alt while afk.