Can we meaningfully make "Epic" mean "Epic"?

[l33t]

So the OP has this penchant for starting up polls and suggestion threads over things that most people don't care about, but insists on kicking up dust anyway.

We established a few threads back over the same tired topic that color/rarity means fuck all, and item level is everything.

But he disagrees and wants good old days of drooling and fapping over a no-lifer geared in full t3 back!

[Pua]

Sometimes epics that were dropped were for the class of the opposite faction.

I'm not sure I'd ever argue that was particularly epic.

So the OP has this penchant for starting up polls and suggestion threads over things that most people don't care about, but insists on kicking up dust anyway.

And we have a penchant for posters to come into suggestion threads that they claim they don't care about, and feel the need to stick their spoon in the chilli regardless.

What's up with that?

But he disagrees and wants good old days of drooling and fapping over a no-lifer geared in full t3 back!

He does?!

Somebody should tell him.

Alternatively, and perhaps preferably, people shouldn't concentrate on talking utter drivel that really only proves they didn't read (or inwardly digest) what was originally posted.

[Raelbo]

It's actually really funny for me to have a laugh at your misplaced use of technical language, see you quote where I say it, and then whinge about "ad hominems" and "strawman arguments" when neither are in evidence. My criticism is of your ridiculous position, rather than you being a ridiculous person. We've never met; you could be a nice boy.

Ironically said just after this ad-hominem:

And then we get a response from Raelbo, the thread's now-resident laughing stock.

As for your strawmanning, when you say:

"so you're basically saying <insert some bullshit twisting of what I said>" and then proceed to argue against what you just said instead of what I actually said, that is a strawman argument. You do it all the time.


Grow up dude. Your writing style relies heavily on jibes, insults and belittling language. You're not interested in debate or discussing the issues you raised or even considering another viewpoint.

And yet you call me a troll? Pfft.

[PosPosPos]

And we have a penchant for posters to come into suggestion threads that they claim they don't care about, and feel the need to stick their spoon in the chilli regardless.

What's up with that?

I don't care about the stupid topic, but I certainly can care about people insisting on bringing up stupid topics.

You obviously can't tell the difference between the two.

[Pandragon]

Epic was never meaningful, neither was legendary. The color only means the power of the gear nothing more.

[l33t]

He does?!
Somebody should tell him.
Alternatively, and perhaps preferably, people shouldn't concentrate on talking utter drivel that really only proves they didn't read (or inwardly digest) what was originally posted.

Really? Well, reread your own quote then:

4) Epic should be epic. You should be impressed when you see someone decked out in full purple, and now, nobody is. The definition of an epic item simply isn’t true anymore, because the game largely showers you in them. I’m not sure that’s a particularly good situation, if there’s a solution to it.

While I agree that triple RNG in gearing sucks and changes should be made ASAP, this particular line is so wrong. You should be impressed when you see a character who did 13/13 mythic, or get Glad, or if a character has particularly hard to obtain achievement, or even has a lot of achievements made... but drooling over a character decked in epics, really? Bah.

[Pua]

Your writing style relies heavily on jibes, insults and belittling language. You're not interested in debate or discussing the issues you raised or even considering another viewpoint.

Read as:

"My argument was proven to be utterly ludicrous, but I'll pretend otherwise by trying to indict mean language".

As for my ad hominem about you being a laughing stock, that's not an ad hominem attack - just an observation.

I don't care about the stupid topic, but I certainly can care about people insisting on bringing up stupid topics.

I don't care! No, I don't care! I care so little, I'm going to keep posting anyway! THAT's how much I don't care!

So there!

You're trying too ha... Zzzzzzzzzzzz.

While I agree that triple RNG in gearing sucks and changes should be made ASAP, this particular line is so wrong. You should be impressed when you see a character who did 13/13 mythic, or get Glad, or if a character has particularly hard to obtain achievement, or even has a lot of achievements made... but drooling over a character decked in epics, really? Bah.

Oh, right. So I never actually said people should drool and fap over a no lifer? I'm glad we got that sorted out. You also seem to agree with my other points, namely that the gearing paradigm needs reviewed. Interesting. There's actually a vote for that above, but I'm willing to bet you went with "I prefer things as they are", anyway.

I think your wider point has merit, though. For example, that's why gladiators typically have a season mount that goes with the title - arguably, I'd be more inclined to see a Mythic clear achievement automatically pick up a mount, too. I generally liked the idea behind transmogrification gear being the reward for challenge modes, but I dislike the challenge mode model (running through an instance like your ass is on fire isn't my idea of fun; not even if you intersperse it with invisibility potions).

What's perhaps most interesting, is that you seem to agree with my general view. You say you should be impressed with a Mythic clear or gladiator, and gear is one aspect of showing that level of capability. I personally think those clearing anything beyond Gorefiend (M) deserve respect for their ability, given how laughably small the clearance numbers for the current raid really are.

So in insulting me, you've actually managed to largely agree with my premise.

Funny how that turns out, isn't it?

[l33t]

So in insulting me, you've actually managed to largely agree with my premise.
Funny how that turns out, isn't it?

Clarification: there never was any insults. Making fun of one's arguments never was considered one.

Also, I voted for Good premise, but I'd go about it differently (post).

In general, as I already told, triple RNG in gearing sucks, and I really want it to be changed in sockets being baseline again, plus reforging available again. Though, I don't support the wild idea that every gear below *insert your raiding difficulty here* should be blue, because it is just wrong; and your idea is just x1000 more times wrong. Epic gear is not a matter of luck RNG, and never should be.

[Pua]

Also, I voted for Good premise, but I'd go about it differently (post).

My apologies.

In general, as I already told, triple RNG in gearing sucks, and I really want it to be changed in sockets being baseline again, plus reforging available again. Though, I don't support the wild idea that every gear below *insert your raiding difficulty here* should be blue, because it is just wrong; and your idea is just x1000 more times wrong. Epic gear is not a matter of luck RNG, and never should be.

You see, that is a valid criticism. It's certainly contradictory for me to discuss RNG problems, then suggest an RNG solution. Personally, I think sockets and reforging all play a part in objectively poor item design. Blizzard claimed that reforging was on the way out, but we shouldn't worry because they'll properly tune all secondary statistics. They've never managed it before, but they were going to do it now.

They then gave all DPS specs an attunement, meaning that any item that didn't have that stat was sub-par.

It was absolutely mind-numbing.

As for triple-random rewards, well, they started that in Mists and it's gotten worse. Even professions are now designed to frustrate, rather than inspire, and I sincerely hope that stops. I understand that fast gearing is a problem, but there are other solutions than "shower players in items they don't want".

[mvaliz]

here is the simple reality: we got used to the system.

Just like in FFVII when we get our first summon materia and thought it to be the most epic shit we saw, so did we when we FIRST started playing WoW and saw a purple item. The same thing as when i had my first 16 slot travelers backpack drop.

We've played the game... And now know how to get those purple weapons.. The same as almost every expansion. The ONLY THING that stood out was si few had them and you didn't know of a clear way to get them yet as you were new to the game stiill. End of story.

[Gheld]

ep·ic
ˈepik/Submit
noun
1.
a long poem, typically one derived from ancient oral tradition, narrating the deeds and adventures of heroic or legendary figures or the history of a nation.
synonyms: heroic poem; More
adjective
1.
of, relating to, or characteristic of an epic or epics.
"England's national epic poem Beowulf"
synonyms: heroic, long, grand, monumental, Homeric, Miltonian
"a traditional epic poem"

Basically the entire notion that "epics aren't epic anymore" is completely bunk.

The definition of Epic neither as a noun or an adjective suggests that something must be rare in order to be Epic. Beating evil baddies is an epic deed. Therefore it is not unreasonable to call the loot acquired from such deeds "epic".

[roahn the warlock]

godbless as well

this is how gear should work

Do you understand what an MMORPG is? Honestly. I hate this website

- - - Updated - - -

ep·ic
ˈepik/Submit
noun
1.
a long poem, typically one derived from ancient oral tradition, narrating the deeds and adventures of heroic or legendary figures or the history of a nation.
synonyms: heroic poem; More
adjective
1.
of, relating to, or characteristic of an epic or epics.
"England's national epic poem Beowulf"
synonyms: heroic, long, grand, monumental, Homeric, Miltonian
"a traditional epic poem"

Basically the entire notion that "epics aren't epic anymore" is completely bunk.

The definition of Epic neither as a noun or an adjective suggests that something must be rare in order to be Epic. Beating evil baddies is an epic deed. Therefore it is not unreasonable to call the loot acquired from such deeds "epic".

I once got an epic for picking up shit for a quest... so.

[Gheld]

I once got an epic for picking up shit for a quest... so.

No you didn't. There is no poop shoveling quest that rewards epics, unless you received an upgrade on that one item in Admiral Taylor's garrison. In which case the base item itself is not epic.

And either way; picking up poop is not ruled out by the definition of epic, depending upon the circumstances.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

All I have to say is that last time blizzard tried that was cataclysm. See how it turned.

[Baconeggcheese]

Junk the color system altogether. It causes more problems than it solves.

They kind of have.

Outside of the first 1-2 weeks of the xpac you're in a completely solid state of always wearing purple gear for the next 2 years until the next xpac comes out. Basically making colors irrelevant.

Which I like to think is the point when these threads pop up.

Why would you be moving from purple to blue?

Tier 1 you have a warforged / socketed purple piece, tier 2 you replace it with a blue.

At least that's what I assume he means.

Also, I think "outdated" gear is a design problem. From an expansion to expansion viewpoint, sure, gear should be outdated. But from tier to tier? I feel it makes gear much more disposable and, thus, much less meaningful when you WILL replace every item you have every time a new raid appears.

That's a subjective preference, though. Any disagreement is perfectly valid.

I like to try and imagine ways to solve that.

Incomparables seem to be the solution the industry currently uses, I just struggle to see how to apply it to wow's gearing.

Monster hunters gearing uses something to that effect that seems like a form of it could translate over well, but even then. and all that ignores how far gone the game is from really being able to overhaul such a core system.

Some would argue that it does the complete opposite. "Oh I got the...nevermind it was the crappy version."

and in the case where getting that gear is rare and unpredictable, it just makes people not care.

[Gheld]

I admit it when you tell me what "in the day" was. Was it "2005"?

Yeah, you know...in 1920 it was epic to have a car. In 1960 it was epic to have a phone in your house. In 1990 it was epic to have internet.

These days every fucking casual has a car, a smartphone and high speed internet. Whopdeefuckingdooo. My life sucks so much, I must define my e-peen over the colour of an item in a video game. And only mine can be purpleZ

And that, my friends, is the sound of the hammer hitting the nail on the head.

[Baconeggcheese]

My life sucks so much, I must define my e-peen over the colour of an item in a video game. And only mine can be purpleZ

I don't ever really get the people who devolve into this kind of argument.

Is the concept of exclusivity being a good thing really that far fetched to you?

[Pua]

I don't ever really get the people who devolve into this kind of argument.

Is the concept of exclusivity being a good thing really that far fetched to you?

To det, yes.

If it's not mindless skepticism, it's some other pro-Blizzard diatribe.

Can we stay on topic instead of insulting other site users? [MoanaLisa]