Protection legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Right - so according to Simcraft I dropped to 54k HPS (after Wednesday) from 90k HPS (currently with no hotfix), this coincides with an increase in DTPS from 9 to 15k - the increase in damage taken is quite significant, however it seems that everything will still be playable - I do not think this puts us on the DK level
The 703-03 version of simcraft however also puts out the following stat weights (for 25% vers, 4,6% haste and 34% mastery):
Haste 8.41
Crit 7.20
Vers 3.04
Mastery 2.42
STR 1.00
Apparently I did something incorrectly since this cannot be right...

[Brost]

For post-nerf main tanking:

Shockwave
Inspiring Presence
Avatar over Ultimatum
Bounding Stride
Indomitable (Not sure how NS will rate after we take more health hits w/less IP)
Booming Voice over Vengeance
Anger Management

Yes/No Why?

[Deleted]

I tried tanking the Greater Sparring partner in the order hall with booming voice instead of vengeance just to see what it would be like. Wow. If that is the new playstyle we're expected to play for the rest of Legion then fuck this game tbh.

[Shieldarm]

I'm planning to stick with Ulti/Vengeance, personally. Booming Voice is 50 rage every 1.5m, or 33.33~rage per minute. Vengeance, thanks to Battle Cry, is a guaranteed 21 rage per minute (since getting a crit on SS gives a free FR, which reduces IP by 21). Getting even 1 crit on SS within a minute is another 21 rage per minute. So, I have to have literally ONE rng crit before it's stronger than Booming Voice.

That said, NS may be stronger. With lower rage gen, we might have to be more strategic about the when.

[Valech]

I'm planning to stick with Ulti/Vengeance, personally. Booming Voice is 50 rage every 1.5m, or 33.33~rage per minute. Vengeance, thanks to Battle Cry, is a guaranteed 21 rage per minute (since getting a crit on SS gives a free FR, which reduces IP by 21). Getting even 1 crit on SS within a minute is another 21 rage per minute. So, I have to have literally ONE rng crit before it's stronger than Booming Voice.

That said, NS may be stronger. With lower rage gen, we might have to be more strategic about the when.

Is this taking into consideration, that most of us soon will have access to the traits, that incrrease the duration of demoshout and the rage shieldslam and revenge generate during demo shout?

[Shieldarm]

Is this taking into consideration, that most of us soon will have access to the traits, that incrrease the duration of demoshout and the rage shieldslam and revenge generate during demo shout?

No. But, a 50% duration makes it 12 seconds. 50% more rage is 15 and 7.5 for SS and REvenge respectively. However, keep in mind.

Those traits ALSO benefit Ulti/Vengeance. So I don't really need to take it into account anyway.

[Jastall]

Once our rage generation is nerfed, do you guys recommen Never Surrender or Indomintable? From my limited understanding, the former gains value since we might not reach the maximum effect of IP in difficult content either dway, and an emergency IP at low HP seems better to me than 25% extra max health. Am I wrong?

[Deleted]

I'm sticking with Vengeance/Ultimatum, for the simple reason that I tried playing a bit with booming voice and the playstyle is so boring I wanted to cry.

[Brost]

Tried the spec in normal EN and several myth+ (up through 6+).

It's a constant struggle for even the most remedial ignore pains on anything remotely difficult, I can't imagine doing the same content with the rage nerfs. I recommend sticking with Vengeance/Ultimatum simply because the free IP's are going to be a must in any top content.

On that note I'm returning to Ultimatum, Crackling Thunder, Vengeance, and Heavy Repercussions. Bounding Strides is great but CT actually makes thunder clap worth using. Anger management didn't really have a dps increase on HR and the defensive cooldowns felt like they were there when I needed them even without AM. On top of that there's going to be less rage for AM to use next patch along with Shield Block needing to carry some weight with less IP, making HR the better choice for raids imo.

Revised spec:
Shockwave
Inspiring Presence
Ultimatum
Crackling Thunder
Never Surrender
Vengeance
Heavy Repercussions

Tried NS out for a myth+2 DHT and it felt safer than Indom however it's such a small sample size that I want to test it more.

[Larynx]

Once our rage generation is nerfed, do you guys recommen Never Surrender or Indomintable? From my limited understanding, the former gains value since we might not reach the maximum effect of IP in difficult content either dway, and an emergency IP at low HP seems better to me than 25% extra max health. Am I wrong?

Extra max health has two uses:

1) It makes damage intake much smoother. More HP = Less % of HP each attack is doing.

2) It allows you to survive very high burst damage that would otherwise have killed you before you received any healing. One shot mechanics are an example of this.

As far as straight IP generation, Indomitable has the unfortunate side effect of decreasing RTFD I believe. Indomitable is much better in low overall damage content, with high burst. You can more easily stack IP (always benefit from +25%, where you'd only be getting 0% with NS), and obviously having a high max health pool is great for this. Outside that, NS > Indom in absolute IP amount at 66% NS health and 72% Indom health. So for sustained damage where the tank is expected to be very self sufficient and not require much healer attention, NS > Indom for sure.

Since warriors will be generating less rage, you're likely going to be dipping a lot, and NS will be better than before. Don't want to make any conclusions though.

[Deleted]

Indomitable has the unfortunate side effect of decreasing RTFD I believe.

No. They are using a intern HP number based on your itemlevel. Using Indomitable, stamina flask or stamina trinket doesnt change the rage we gain from damage taken.

I also dont get why everyone is so butthurt about the vengeance change. It was really overpowered. I also dont get why everyone thinks that this kills our playstyle? We just dont use FR before IP without the talent. Its wasnt a really high skillcap thing in the first place. But this change opens up the other 4 talents, that were blocked by the vengeance/ultimatum combo.

[Milocow]

with the rage nerf to SS, revenge is worth using again right?

[Larynx]

No. They are using a intern HP number based on your itemlevel. Using Indomitable, stamina flask or stamina trinket doesnt change the rage we gain from damage taken.

I also dont get why everyone is so butthurt about the vengeance change. It was really overpowered. I also dont get why everyone thinks that this kills our playstyle? We just dont use FR before IP without the talent. Its wasnt a really high skillcap thing in the first place. But this change opens up the other 4 talents, that were blocked by the vengeance/ultimatum combo.

Less APM. Vengeance is an active ability you use frequently, Ultimatum is a proc. Three of the four other choices are passives, and only one of which has any gameplay differences (Demo Shout). Both Demo Shout + Avatar have very long CDs, so the rotation without Vengeance and Ultimatum is just much more boring.

[Shieldarm]

with the rage nerf to SS, revenge is worth using again right?

Probably. It was barely beat out before. I'll see if I can't try building a spreadsheet covered in equations to figure it out later.

[Stallion]

My idea was along these lines:

- Legendary Gloves
- Haste > Mastery setup
- All 3 Artifact relic Gems setup for Shatter the Bones
- Keep Vengeance + Ultimatum combo

Exactly my thoughts. Will try to go for that combo. 3 x Shatter the Bones beats Dragon Skin already pre-patch in terms of DPS and HPS for me in Simulationcraft. Will be even further ahead with the nerfs. Sadly we need Thorium-Plated-Egg for this from Violet Hold which is not available to M+, so the Iron Relic will lack several Itemlvl behind by going 3 Shatter The Bones Relics. Any advice on that?

[heavenscalamity]

Exactly my thoughts. Will try to go for that combo. 3 x Shatter the Bones beats Dragon Skin already pre-patch in terms of DPS and HPS for me in Simulationcraft. Will be even further ahead with the nerfs. Sadly we need Thorium-Plated-Egg for this from Violet Hold which is not available to M+, so the Iron Relic will lack several Itemlvl behind by going 3 Shatter The Bones Relics. Any advice on that?

Pray for that relic to titanforge.

[GameFX]

They said the tuning isn't final so I created a thread for constructive feedback

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749316192#1

Let them know

[Chewtoy]

Emancptr needs to copy his post here and put it on the forums, and we all need to go push it. I'm honestly worried about how we'll stack up now in Heroic and Mythic content as I certainly wasn't swimming in rage and Cenarius and Xavius were knocking off IP as fast as I could put it up.

[Emancptr]

It's already posted here:

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...9405943?page=1

[Deleted]

It's already posted here:

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...9405943?page=1

none US players can't push it., sadness.