Protection legion Discussion

[Krom2040]

The buffs made it assure crit blocks on every attack coming at you, as well as the damage on it actually being really strong. It's a decent button I'll actually press now. Do I like that I can't move during it? No, but it just means I'll think about when I'm using it. Instead of it just being another "On CD" ability.

I just don't understand why it isn't a fire-and-forget passive buff for the next 4 seconds. It would be more fun that way and not that much more powerful.

[Tirilka]

Uh..isn't that the case now?

Right now it's so bland and awkward looking. Compared to the Legion version it's like day and night - both the animation of it and spell effect.

[Deleted]

Holy shit, why did nobody mentioned the fact that in Legion when you use Thunder Clap, you character literally stomps the earth so hard it cracks? It's the best fucking animation change in Legion.
https://youtu.be/aX_xEywMYoY?t=26s

After seeing his video, I now think that even if mehcanically protection will be more boring than WoD, then I at least will look brutal and awesome playing it.

nice they changed it from the weird swirly lightning balls thing it was before.

[Ashenia]

They did say they will improve all animations and they are actually doing a good job. Will they keep same focus on our spec? Specially that AP/IP convert which is just bad and will do what each xpack did to us, making us weakest at the end with gear from all tanks as our gain is minimal (it's either getting haste gear or mastery gear.. and who likes 8sec SS?).

I thought there will be a build this Thursday, we will have to wait till next tho.. Hopefully it's because they are actually removing this concept and redesigning it back to Sta or Sta/AP at least. I would rather have it Mastery/Sta ~ 75%-65% Mastery / 25%-35% Stamina, so we can still get something out of stamina..

[Hostile]

nice they changed it from the weird swirly lightning balls thing it was before.

Oh nice, I wasn't a fan of swirly TC as well. And the Glyphed version is even better.

BTW Shield Wall animation is just so epic now.

[Breccia]

Right now it's so bland and awkward looking. Compared to the Legion version it's like day and night - both the animation of it and spell effect.

Fair enough, I'll have to check it out.

[Deleted]

They did say they will improve all animations and they are actually doing a good job. Will they keep same focus on our spec? Specially that AP/IP convert which is just bad and will do what each xpack did to us, making us weakest at the end with gear from all tanks as our gain is minimal (it's either getting haste gear or mastery gear.. and who likes 8sec SS?).

I thought there will be a build this Thursday, we will have to wait till next tho.. Hopefully it's because they are actually removing this concept and redesigning it back to Sta or Sta/AP at least. I would rather have it Mastery/Sta ~ 75%-65% Mastery / 25%-35% Stamina, so we can still get something out of stamina..

There is no intrinsic reason why it scaling off of AP instead of Sta will make it scale more poorly. We gain AP from increased strength so gear upgrades will still affect it (in addition to mastery as you already stated). It's simply a matter of tuning exactly what rate it scales at, which still has not been done for any abilities or specs. You seem to be upset because the value of IP dropped with the change, but they could easily have changed it to be capped at 15% of hp instead of 20% and you'd see the same affect. The scaling isn't the issue, you just dislike it's currently tuned value.

It does make stamina less valuable to us.. but at the same time, stamina is always very valuable to a tank so that may or may not really be a significant issue.

[Deleted]

i like it that they add shouts to some animations as well feels very warrior like and furious.

[Cylunaria]

There is no intrinsic reason why it scaling off of AP instead of Sta will make it scale more poorly. We gain AP from increased strength so gear upgrades will still affect it (in addition to mastery as you already stated). It's simply a matter of tuning exactly what rate it scales at, which still has not been done for any abilities or specs. You seem to be upset because the value of IP dropped with the change, but they could easily have changed it to be capped at 15% of hp instead of 20% and you'd see the same affect. The scaling isn't the issue, you just dislike it's currently tuned value.

It does make stamina less valuable to us.. but at the same time, stamina is always very valuable to a tank so that may or may not really be a significant issue.

What? It completely killed synergy between IP/Indomitable, and made trinkets with stamina (once again!) complete garbage. I enjoyed the health scaling as well over the AP scaling. We are going to have less AP to build off of than any other expac. Rings and Necks no longer give primary stat. The health scaling at least still had benefit out of those items.

[Deleted]

What? It completely killed synergy between IP/Indomitable, and made trinkets with stamina (once again!) complete garbage. I enjoyed the health scaling as well over the AP scaling. We are going to have less AP to build off of than any other expac. Rings and Necks no longer give primary stat. The health scaling at least still had benefit out of those items.

It made trinkets with Stamina "garbage" but it made trinkets with Str better. So that's not any kind of issue. Yes, it killed the synergy with Indomitable but that was obviously intentional since that was causing huge conflicts with the intended functionality of Never Surrender, since 25% stronger IP all the time was pretty much always going to be better than a scaling reduction. They want to make the different talents have some merits, and now there's probably more times when you would swap between the two than before (with Never Surrender generally being the better of the two now). The balance between them is still far from perfect though..

Your comment about items not having primary stat is irrelevant, as that again is a tuning issue, where they pick a scaling factor that takes account of what amount of stats you get from gear. Simple example: You have gear that gives 100sta and 50str, you either make IP give you 20% of sta, or 40% of str.. either way, the end result is identical. Blizzard have a value in mind for what they want IP to cover, and regardless of which stat it scales with they will pick the coefficient that gives that end result for each expected level of gear.

It's fine to prefer stamina scaling to str scaling, for personal reasons. But objectively, it will still give you the size of IPs they intend us to have at the end of the day. The change doesn't cause scaling issues.

[Beardyface]

It made trinkets with Stamina "garbage" but it made trinkets with Str better. So that's not any kind of issue. Yes, it killed the synergy with Indomitable but that was obviously intentional since that was causing huge conflicts with the intended functionality of Never Surrender, since 25% stronger IP all the time was pretty much always going to be better than a scaling reduction. They want to make the different talents have some merits, and now there's probably more times when you would swap between the two than before (with Never Surrender generally being the better of the two now). The balance between them is still far from perfect though..

Your comment about items not having primary stat is irrelevant, as that again is a tuning issue, where they pick a scaling factor that takes account of what amount of stats you get from gear. Simple example: You have gear that gives 100sta and 50str, you either make IP give you 20% of sta, or 40% of str.. either way, the end result is identical. Blizzard have a value in mind for what they want IP to cover, and regardless of which stat it scales with they will pick the coefficient that gives that end result for each expected level of gear.

It's fine to prefer stamina scaling to str scaling, for personal reasons. But objectively, it will still give you the size of IPs they intend us to have at the end of the day. The change doesn't cause scaling issues.

And removed the interaction with Last Stand, which is a bummer. STR trinkets aren't going to have stats on them that tanks want - only Stam trinkets will.

If they gave us something it would interact with, it would be fine; i.e. Battle Cry affects STR or AP instead of crit. Or better yet, Focused Rage increases our AP per stack rather than our shield slam dmg.

As it stands in this build, IP is simply not going to scale as well over the course of the expansion unless they completely alter gear stats, which they have given no indication that they will do.

[Carmion]

STR trinkets aren't going to have stats on them that tanks want - only Stam trinkets will.

Other than pure direct damage proccs, every strength trinket will probably have stats that tanks want.

[Beardyface]

Other than pure direct damage proccs, every strength trinket will probably have stats that tanks want.

Can you provide a current example of a STR trinket with a secondary stat or proc that a tank would want. There aren't currently any from HFC, and I don't recall any from BRF or HM either.

[Deleted]

Can you provide a current example of a STR trinket with a secondary stat or proc that a tank would want. There aren't currently any from HFC, and I don't recall any from BRF or HM either.

To a certain degree; Unending Hunger, yes it is crit with a strength proc. But having let's say Legion drops a str trinket with a sudden crit proc. That could lead to some nice parry spikes.

[TheAbomb]

You absolutely need Berzerker rage for PvP Prot being a utility class or how it should be absolutely needs this.

[Beardyface]

To a certain degree; Unending Hunger, yes it is crit with a strength proc. But having let's say Legion drops a str trinket with a sudden crit proc. That could lead to some nice parry spikes.

But parry is bad in Legion. Crit should be our worst or second to worst stat. Lots of our abilities depend on us getting hit. Our top stats are going to be Mastery and/or Haste, depending on how IP ends up. Also, unending hunger was hardly used on HFC progression. It became nice midway though the tier for a moment, and is the go-to on farm runs, but blizzard doesn't design the classes/fights around farm runs.

[Carmion]

Unending Hunger was usable as a Tank as was the JC trinket (skull). Of course there weren´t that many STR trinkets that tanks used, because there were better options. Most of WoD that was bonus armor trinkets. Like Pols, Eidolon, BFD, Anzus....
But bonus armor will be gone, so what is left for tanks? Stamina, special effect trinkets and, of course, stat trinkets. And with tanking stats completely gone, what are we going to wear? Probably STR trinkets.

And parry will not be "bad", why should it? It will not be better or worse than it has ever been. Avoidance. Sure, haste rises in worth, but parry will not change itself.

[Nihilanth]

How is Prot PvP damage wise? Does the spec have any self healing at all?

[Beardyface]

Unending Hunger was usable as a Tank as was the JC trinket (skull). Of course there weren´t that many STR trinkets that tanks used, because there were better options. Most of WoD that was bonus armor trinkets. Like Pols, Eidolon, BFD, Anzus....
But bonus armor will be gone, so what is left for tanks? Stamina, special effect trinkets and, of course, stat trinkets. And with tanking stats completely gone, what are we going to wear? Probably STR trinkets.

And parry will not be "bad", why should it? It will not be better or worse than it has ever been. Avoidance. Sure, haste rises in worth, but parry will not change itself.

Again: no tank in their right mind used UH on progression. if they did, they were gimping themselves.

Of the trinkets we know about in Legion, every single one is better than the STR/CRIT one. See for yourself:

http://legion.wowhead.com/items=4.-4?filter=ro=5

Scales of Earth and Dragon Scales require that we get hit. If we want the bonus armor from Scales of Earth or the extra rage and stronger IP from Dragon Scales, parry is our enemy. We want as little avoidance as we can get. I'm not 100% sure wether or not we gain rage from parrying/dodging an attack, but if we don't, it's another reason not to want parry. Since we don't want parry we don't want crit. Crit does nothing positive for us in Legion defensively.

Why are you trying to argue for IP to be designed so that it has less interoperability with our other spells and talents? Stam scaling is the best design decision for IP unless they give us control over our AP/STR via abilities or change up the talents.

[Carmion]

Parry still resets Revenge, what I would not call useless. Additionally with IP scaling of AP, strength gets another defensive benefit.
I do not say that strength trinkets have to be the best thing on earth, but there is enough reason to wear them.

And I cannot remember having *ever* said that I want IP designed in any particular way. I never did.