Legion - Subtlety discussion

[Deleted]

I have seen the Warcraft logs Heroic statistics and seeing Subtlety so low made no sense to me. So I dig into those reports, encounter wise and saw 1-10 parses per Heroic kills as Subtlety.

They are VERY skewed right now. Dont be sad, my fellow Subs, we do better than that (I was pulling 190k average last night on Nythendra/Elerethe/Ilgynoth, and I expect to have 200k+ DPS this night on Ursoc).

[Faildevil]

Yeah...I had around 220k on Ursoc and also on dragons last night as Sub.

(ursoc wasn't loged): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

I think I would have performed better as Assa and also Outlaw. Dragons is ok for Sub, but Assa would have the benefit that you could give the drake full dots before switching, and Outlaw can easily AOE when the small adds spawn. Both increases the DPS substantially.

As right now, Sub is dead in the raid enviroment. And I think this will stay this way. The pure ST damage would have to be absurd high to make up for the poor mechanics when it comes to AOE and especially cleaving.

[PessimiStick]

They are VERY skewed right now. Dont be sad, my fellow Subs, we do better than that (I was pulling 190k average last night on Nythendra/Elerethe/Ilgynoth, and I expect to have 200k+ DPS this night on Ursoc).

But 190/200k is terrible. I did 260k on both Nythendra and Ursoc last night, 266k on Cenarius, and 294k on Dragons, as Outlaw. 200k is literally 30%+ behind that.

[madmossy]

200k is still ~170k below the top 5 which is shockingly bad

[brainwreck]

I went in tuesday hoping the sims for rogues weren't right. They kinda are and the fights really just aren't friendly to the spec. Good thing I have till Monday to catch my outlaw artifact up as much as I can. It does play a little faster in a raid it seems so might not be as irritating. I'll try being optimistic about it.
Can look at our logs if you want. All 3 specs were present all night (except my ill advised attempt at outlaw with a terribly un-developed artifact on one fight), though skill may play a bit of a role. But even with some decent parses for the spec I was getting crushed. Can't Post links but just put this after the warcraft logs dot com /rankings/character/11199192/latest/

[FenrizZJ]

200k and under is absolutely disgustingly bad. That kind of upsets me since I was expecting Sub to be somewhat competitive!

[panzaghor]

200k on nythendra today :P

[elcapone]

Sub is pretty volatile depending when the fight ends your dps can plummet or fly..I burst for 380k drop to 200k then drop to 190k then up to 220k. On target dummy, fukn shadow dances man. Also on Ursoc i died cuz i teleported when he was doing charge and I used shadowstrike out of melee range fml

[Jaronicity]

Yay???

Subtlelty

Eviscerate damage increased by 15%.
Nightblade damage increased by 15%.
Note: See below for additional PvP tuning adjustments to Eviscerate and Nightblade.
Shuriken Storm damage increased by 30%.
Second Shuriken (Artifact Trait) chance to activate increased to 30% (was 10%), damage increased by 30%, and now deals 200% additional damage while Stealth or Shadow Dance is active.

The additional PVP tuning is that the aforementioned abilities are nerfed for the same amount they were buffed here.

[ainurr]

Also include aoe effect from dfa by 100%

[secondratetech]

I don't see how those changes are going to help on raid boss fights :/ Our upfront damage is boosted, mythic dungeon bosses and trash packs boosted - we didn't really need either.

[elfporn]

I don't see how those changes are going to help on raid boss fights :/ Our upfront damage is boosted, mythic dungeon bosses and trash packs boosted - we didn't really need either.

15% dmg boost to evisc and nightblade will definitely help, and are significant buffs.

[secondratetech]

15% dmg boost to evisc and nightblade will definitely help, and are significant buffs.

I hope you are right. We will find out in a few days

[Naiattavain]

Shakespear; his play Julius Caesar.

Brutus: No, Cassius, for the eye sees not itself but by reflection, by some other things."

God bless Chris Metzen

from end of warlords to know, the rogue was better. all the magic the rogue had was compensation for being on the bottom and now with legion it was a very disappointing attack! on all of roguedom. im sorry and i roll play my character to only find out that that all of you hold me with such contempt only to find your pocket book empty with money and lush riches all spent on.. i've given my all and Mike and I are both 15,000 dollars richer. I wish you all a great and happy day. to whom it may concern i think that what your looking at is to fallow through with what was said to begin with; Balance. until then, ill keep my eye out for the day Julius Caesar returns to Rome.

[lolpve]

I don't see how those changes are going to help on raid boss fights :/ Our upfront damage is boosted, mythic dungeon bosses and trash packs boosted - we didn't really need either.

It's not specifically a boost to upfront damage. At the start of fights when burning through dances shadowstrike is a much more significant damage source. As the fight goes on finishers overtake it. Buffing finishers means our sustained is a fair bit better.

Trash dps is hugely important for mythic and mythic+, basically determines which specs are taken. I feel they targeted the right things; our finishers for sustained ST and shuriken storm for burst AoE (although the aoe buff might be insufficient).

[Sephiroso]

sublety seems to be struggling in raids. I do agree, because some fights you could be shadow dancing and a mechanic forces you away, losing a charge is huge because you can't lower shadowdance cd or shadowstrike. Thats a huge dps loss.

That would be no fault but your own. A raider should know when mechanics happen and use their cds appropriately.

[elcapone]

That would be no fault but your own. A raider should know when mechanics happen and use their cds appropriately.

your statement is incorrect regarding sub since shadow dance is part of the core rotation. If a rot is coming in 15 seconds your proposing not do any dps. if a rot doesnt come to you, u just lost 15 secs of using shadow dance and your dps will plummet.

[Sephiroso]

your statement is incorrect regarding sub since shadow dance is part of the core rotation. If a rot is coming in 15 seconds your proposing not do any dps. if a rot doesnt come to you, u just lost 15 secs of using shadow dance and your dps will plummet.

Shadow dance has 3 charges, you use up your charges in such a way that lets you pile them up and keep your charges rolling continually so that if you know a mechanic that might require you to run out/be away from boss, you can save up charges in that time. Again, no fault but your own if you do not know when to use your cds throughout a fight.

[Naiattavain]

shadow dance doesn't really last very long and the energy costs are too high; warlords rogue was better off because of the magic the class could channel was there. this time in legion its just shadow that rogue has no cross school using. i unsubbed and stopped playing warcraft because of this.

[elfporn]

shadow dance doesn't really last very long and the energy costs are too high; warlords rogue was better off because of the magic the class could channel was there. this time in legion its just shadow that rogue has no cross school using. i unsubbed and stopped playing warcraft because of this.

And we're the better for it! thanks!