[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Duckz0rs]

Can't imagine its channeled because of the FnB talent, it isn't supposed to replace it but for it to have any purpose it'd need to be able to accompany it in aoe situations.

Even if it is channeled(Which would suck), last I checked none of the other channeled aoe abilities have been worth casting for quite some time. Can't tell you the last time I saw a mage blizzard or my boomkin hurricane.

I'm kind of confused how they would be balanced if they're supposed to complement each other without getting to OP levels of damage. Either they're both so-so in damage or one is weak and the other particularly strong? Unless taking the FnB talent lowers the damage on RoF to some extent, while still keeping the overall damage higher than RoF on its own.

[Gaidax]

I'm kind of confused how they would be balanced if they're supposed to complement each other without getting to OP levels of damage. Either they're both so-so in damage or one is weak and the other particularly strong? Unless taking the FnB talent lowers the damage on RoF to some extent, while still keeping the overall damage higher than RoF on its own.

Well most likely RoF will be average minus AoE and you will be able to further boost your AoE to respectable level with talents.

I do wonder how will they solve this whole RoF part of single target priority list issue, I suspect what they could do now that AoE does not need embers, but hope they don't go that far.

[Scathbais]

Not a fan of the changes. Destro felt perfect. And I do hope we can still play with GoSac, but I fear that, given the tweet.

I am glad for the changes. Charred Remains is a sucky play style to be forced into. The only reason it was mandatory is because Blizz took an extra spiky nerfbat to ember generation.

[Baconeggcheese]

Well most likely RoF will be average minus AoE and you will be able to further boost your AoE to respectable level with talents.

I do wonder how will they solve this whole RoF part of single target priority list issue, I suspect what they could do now that AoE does not need embers, but hope they don't go that far.

RoF does % more dmg based on the number of targets hit would solve it. Off the top of my head.

But I doubt they do anything like that, I imagine destructions niche is just going to be really strong cleave now and our aoe is simply not going to be what it is currently.

[Gaidax]

RoF does % more dmg based on the number of targets hit would solve it. Off the top of my head.

But I doubt they do anything like that, I imagine destructions niche is just going to be really strong cleave now and our aoe is simply not going to be what it is currently.

Or you could simply make RoF get bonus damage from Immolate as now, but suppress Immolate shard generation.

There you go, eliminated it from Single Target ever.

[Woz]

Once the datamining is over and/or beta actually comes out with all the current abilities and spells I'll update the OP. Currently there is a lot of information out there for all the specs, but sort of in jumbled order which can be found here: http://www.wowhead.com/news=250045/l...hanges#warlock

[Gaidax]

The bad: GoSac neutered, Summon Doomguard
The good: permanent Havoc, Soul Effigy (I seriously hope it does not work with Havoc, though, otherwise we are pigeonholed into this).
The neutral: Chaos Bolt got baseline damage bump, but scaling got hit - won't be having as much plain +% damage boosts as we have now with Dark Soul and GoSac gone. Mana tap is just annoying, really.

Edit: and it seems you can't have permanent Havoc and Soul Effigy together - same talent row.

[Dnusha]

So guys, isn't this essentially a Fel Flame (it's also under "destro" category on wowhead)

[Tems]

So according to the datamined spells.

Chaotic Energy makes haste reduces Havoc and Conflagrate CD (Impressive)
Immolate critical ticks Grants a soul shard (back to crit being the only RNG in the case of SS generation)
Backdraft is 5 seconds with no charges and can be increased by an additional 3 seconds via talent
Havoc has a talent that increases its duration and removes its cooldown :O
Shadowflame is the new felflame with a dot lol


I don't get the Soul Effigy talent tho

[Rayaleith]

Soul Effigy is like the mages crystal Did we really need that resemblance?

- - - Updated - - -

Removal of Glyph of Eternal Resolve is a bit ouch.

[Gaidax]

Soul Effigy is like the mages crystal Did we really need that resemblance?

In warlock context it is MUCH more powerful, if it acts the way I think it does where it is permanent and the damage is simply copied, then this opens up tons of possibilities such as most obvious multidotting in any encounter, even single target. Havoc in any encounter, even single target - heck it will literally multiply amount of Chaos Bolts we can use in single target encounter by 2.

And finally it may allow you to do damage to the target from any place in the encounter, even if the target is out of range.

The thing is uber powerful and much better than crystal, because it does not require close proximity or charging up and you are in 100% control of where the damage goes.

[Baconeggcheese]

In warlock context it is MUCH more powerful, if it acts the way I think it does where it is permanent and the damage is simply copied

It just says the dmg it takes is replicated to the original target. Wouldn't work like havoc if that's the case.

It sounds like a ST talent tbh, since the idea looks like you would havoc / dot it and then continue on the original target that its on effectively increasing your dmg against that target by X%.

Which would still be really powerful, albeit a bit scary since it could force them to drive our base ST down.

[Tems]

In warlock context it is MUCH more powerful, if it acts the way I think it does where it is permanent and the damage is simply copied, then this opens up tons of possibilities such as most obvious multidotting in any encounter, even single target. Havoc in any encounter, even single target - heck it will literally multiply amount of Chaos Bolts we can use in single target encounter by 2.

And finally it may allow you to do damage to the target from any place in the encounter, even if the target is out of range.

The thing is uber powerful and much better than crystal, because it does not require close proximity or charging up and you are in 100% control of where the damage goes.

Yes but all that damage is gone to one target that important, the other is just a dummy. Going by this context, its good for dps whoring, nothing much

[Grizelda]

No the damage is transferred to the main target....isn't it?

Like we've made a little voodoo doll.

[Deleted]

It just says the dmg it takes is replicated to the original target. Wouldn't work like havoc if that's the case.

It sounds like a ST talent tbh, since the idea looks like you would havoc / dot it and then continue on the original target that its on effectively increasing your dmg against that target by X%.

Which would still be really powerful, albeit a bit scary since it could force them to drive our base ST down.

based on the wording alone it sounds like a ST version of the mage crystal.

[Deleted]

AFAIK its a talent that competes with the perma havoc one but the distinction between talents and spec spells is a bit blurred on datamined tooltips atm so im not sure.
Not a big fan of something like that tho, considering how dull it is as concept and doesnt really require you to do more than putting a havoc every 20sec on focus and keep doing what you do st, which is basically the same as doing a council fight

Statswise generally speaking they seem to push toward crit/haste for st and mastery combined with haste for aoe -ish?

[Gaidax]

Yes but all that damage is gone to one target that important, the other is just a dummy. Going by this context, its good for dps whoring, nothing much

That is not true, damage you do Effigy goes to your main target as well, so there is no whoring there.

But I do heavily suspect this will be tagged as Affliction talent in the end.

- - - Updated - - -

Statswise generally speaking they seem to push toward crit/haste for st and mastery combined with haste for aoe -ish?

I think it's still Crit/Mastery after all, it's just Crit will be definitely better than Mastery and Mastery will probably be >= Haste.

I am happy though that the idea of Destruction is mostly intact, you still have the same baseline generate resource and spend on big nukes (which seen to remain big, thankfully) gameplay, which is great and you still have Havoc around and a much more powerful one to boot.

The only three big question marks here are Shadowburn, which appears to be on it's way to become the main nuke with it's 1 Shard cost (and other clear advantages), the whole Soul Effigy thing, which we have no idea of how will it really play out and our AoE without F&B (I'm pretty sure with F&B it will be kickass).

------

Level 100 talents as a whole are quite a question... Channel Demonfire appears to be REALLY strong, perma-Havoc speaks for itself and Soul Effigy is also huge depending on how it is delivered.

I'm actually quite surprised nobody is talking about Channel Demonfire - did you see that tooltip? 15 bolts each 100% spellpower each? 12s CD no resource cost, instant and no channeling? That's like literally 5 Shadowburns worth of damage every 12 seconds for free.

I would not be surprised to see Channel Demonfire a permanent pick for us really - it's freakishly strong.

[Deleted]

"up to 15 bolts" which means its a fixed amount per target (like 3 or less?) so the idea would be effigy for st permahavoc for up to 3 targets then channel demonfire for the rest

..If those are the talents set in stone ofc

I do think that we'll be pushed into haste stat tho, beside crit because it gives much better resource gen and mastery will end up being the okish stat you dont want to stack due its rng (kinda smoothed by haste) but you dont scoff at if you have it

[Gaidax]

Where do you see "up to"? Unless I am missing something it's just 15 bolts and from the looks of it - it will indeed be our default talent of choic for that row.

I must say after seeing the talents I did chill a bit, our Shard generation will be pretty shit unless we manage to where some more with Shadowburn, which is now a talent that competes with Fire and Brimstone of all things, so we are left with shitty RoF which remains shitty and gets a cast time, which means we will have to take Cataclysm at expense of Eradication just to be able to have any sort of acceptable AoE.

Then we have Inquisition slapped on us for a very cheap costs of 40% Mana and Soul Leech is much weaker now and competes with Demonic Circle, which became a talent for some wild reason.

I'm getting quite less and less excited about this whole thing, I hope Artifact gives us some boost there.

[13last]

Guys I'm just gonna leave this here, I think warlock is now my second favorite class ever!
http://beta.wowdb.com/spells/196710-lord-of-flames

Its an artifact weapon passive spell. It was included in the IDs that Simca posted.