[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Kirroth]

I think what people mean by "flat modifier" is "a buff to all your damaging abilities" with the opposite being a Mastery that only benefits certain spells. Now, the new Destro Mastery isn't exactly that. It doesn't benefit pet damage or damaging trinket procs. But it's close enough that I can see why they'd use the term.

What I can't see is why they're opposed to it. A Mastery that only benefits certain buttons encourages all or nothing builds; either you stack Mastery to the ceiling and make your entire rotation about pushing those buttons as much as possible, or you ignore those buttons as much as possible and the value of Mastery drops to less than Vers. Neither dynamic is one I'm particularly fond of, because they both make some of your buttons feel weak to push and they both heavily devalue a lot of otherwise interesting talent choices.

I've got enough alts that I'm rather sick of both those extremes. A Mastery that's a more universal "flat" boost to performance, just like all the other secondary stats? Fine by me! Maybe that means I can stack something besides Mastery for once. Or heck, maybe I won't want a single stat at the expense of everything else. That'd be great.

[bio347]

A bit of a topic shift, but the announced secondary stat scaling changes should benefit early-game Destruction pretty well. Higher-than-expected early crit levels will mean the shards from immolate will actually be significantly impactful for the whole life of the spec, not just once raid-geared.

Also, they changed the wording on the Scepter of Sargeras to read "Equip: Grants unstable power over time and space, causing your spells to rip open rifts to dark unknowable places." Still no clue what it does.

[Grizelda]

I don't think they know either.

[Gaidax]

I am sure they do, probably it's a bit complex to implement that's why the holdup.

[Gnarilex]

I am sure they do, probably it's a bit complex to implement that's why the holdup.

I just want to see the portals already. It's hard to tell how destro will play in Legion without the artifact.

[Baconeggcheese]

I still think they're just desperately trying to figure out how to make the other specs relevant when destro is about to become the new t17 demo.

[Deleted]

I still think they're just desperately trying to figure out how to make the other specs relevant when destro is about to become the new t17 demo.

Your reasons behind this statement?

[Baconeggcheese]

Your reasons behind this statement?

Largely nothing has changed about the spec, its a high burst cleave focused direct damage spec. Which when you have to pick 1 spec to play is always going to be more useful in more situations and on the mechanics that matter in a given raid tier vs the other two specs being dot specs with high ramp.

Destro's been our jack of all trades for a while now, the only thing its bad at currently is movement which skilled play can deal with. Oh and they made cataclysm destro specific as well, so where demo had the burst aoe niche previously destro has it now while still being the high burst direct dmg / cleave spec.

[Deleted]

All of those reasons are still relative to the final number pass, so i wouldnt hold my breath if I were you, eagerly waiting to play Destro the MasterSpec, as they may do the same they did with Demo t18, in order to make you choose between a flexible but subpar spec or other more performing(even if of niche) choices, and tbh if i have to decide between having a mediocre jack of all trades spec and a superior niche spec as my last dps spot id just opt out for the latter, simply because any kind of required task can be performed by other classes aswell

[Baconeggcheese]

I'm fully aware friend, hence why I think they're trying to figure it out. Because you can't completely gut a spec like that in legion with the systems they're setting up to try and force people to only play 1 spec.

If the 3 specs are actually balanced destro won't be the "mediocre" jack of all trades, it'll be the *why would you ever pick a dot spec vs this-of all trades*. It's actually a problem I'm curious how they'll fix in a climate where if they completely fuck over a spec they alienate and piss off people in a far more significant way vs the past where people could just swap specs.

[Gaidax]

3 specs won't be balanced, there will be a T19 darling and T20 darling too like there always was. Destruction's flexibility does not guarantee anything really, it could be BRF all over again with Destruction decent at everything VS Demo being damn good at the things we actually do face.

[JV Chequer]

There will be so many nerfs and buffs until 7.0.X (Legion launch) and so many things related to APoints and Legendaries, so talking about "what will be OP" the next tier it's kinda silly when we just should focus on Gameplay and how it fits on next raid tier bosses.

[Baconeggcheese]

3 specs won't be balanced, there will be a T19 darling and T20 darling too like there always was. Destruction's flexibility does not guarantee anything really, it could be BRF all over again with Destruction decent at everything VS Demo being damn good at the things we actually do face.

I wonder about that, because again... they're trying to pigeon hole us into playing one spec. And they separated PvP in order to allow themselves to properly balance both. They can't just do what they've done in the past with the situation they're setting up unless they want to piss off / fuck over a lot of people. I'm running under the assumption that blizzard is a smart company and realizes this.

There was no reason to play destro in BRF because demos kit did everything that mattered mechanically. It was literally the same kind of "jack of all trades" that I'm talking about destro being, just better because it had movement. In legion they're effectively turning demo into a "dot" spec, so if all 3 are balanced then aff / demo should always be good in similar situations where dot specs can function and destro will be the new t17 demo being generally good at everything to the degree where *if* its balanced there won't be a reason to play the other specs.

So yeah, one solution is to leave it undertuned like demo right now, but again that is a big no no with the design philosophy they're going into legion with.

There will be so many nerfs and buffs until 7.0.X (Legion launch) and so many things related to APoints and Legendaries, so talking about "what will be OP" the next tier it's kinda silly when we just should focus on Gameplay and how it fits on next raid tier bosses.

uh... that's exactly what's being talked about. Who the hell is talking about numbers?

Talking about mechanics, direct dmg specs are always mechanically superior in raids than dot specs when both are well balanced.

[Deleted]

Destro's been our jack of all trades for a while now, the only thing its bad at currently is movement which skilled play can deal with. Oh and they made cataclysm destro specific as well, so where demo had the burst aoe niche previously destro has it now while still being the high burst direct dmg / cleave spec.

just bcoz destro has cataclysm doesnt mean that it has taken demo's spot for burst aoe, arguably, demo's burst aoe niche has only gotten stronger due to the dmg potential of implosion(especially since impslap interacts with every add that gets critted dunno if it still does tho) being much greater than that of cataclysm and channel demonfire put together, if anything demo has replaced destro as our best aoe spec coz FnB is essentially the same as summon beholder, channel demonfire and cata are on a cd, but implosion is not and summoning imps is quite easy on aoe packs(provided impslap still works like previously mentioned and even if it doesnt demo aoe is still arguably better due in large part bcoz of the dmg limitation of channel demonfire) then take summon infernal and demo's mastery and DE into account(+60% haste and +50+% dmg) and destro doesnt look so attractive for anything aoe, burst or sustained, only niche destro still has is its cleave imo.

[Grizelda]

But...you don't even know what the portals ripped into the fabric of reality do yet.

[Deleted]

But...you don't even know what the portals ripped into the fabric of reality do yet.

thats true, and it provide massive amounts of aoe, we'll have to wait and see but until that happens ill stand by what i wrote.

[Duckz0rs]

But...you don't even know what the portals ripped into the fabric of reality do yet.

It might be eerily similar to the runes granted by mage tower/spirit lodge in WoD. Something that spawns randomly around you and you stand in it for increased damage.
Affliction isn't particularly good at short-lived adds, so the Artifact spawns mobs you can snap-burst for a buff. Destro isn't particularly good at movement, so why not something you have to run towards for a buff? Very cynical, but it sounds kind of likely to me.

Honestly though, they can do just about anything. If it's actually still around, since they seem to have removed most passives from Artifacts(?) in the latest patch.

Regarding AoE, if Rain of Fire will actually do damage again at some point I'm guessing Destro will at least still be stronger than Demo on sustained AoE. F&B + RoF + Doomfires, if they work sort of like Archimonde's, doesn't sound too bad.

[Deleted]

oh yeah, i forgot about rain of fire going to get a buff.

[Uzkin]

RoF is a 8 sec channeled spell, at least according to the newest talent calculator. So it won't be F&B + RoF; it'll be *either* F&B *or* RoF. Cannot have RoF instant since destro must be de facto least mobile class-spec in the game. In the same vein, Shadowfury got a cast time now. Awesome.

[bio347]

RoF is a 8 sec channeled spell, at least according to the newest talent calculator. So it won't be F&B + RoF; it'll be *either* F&B *or* RoF. Cannot have RoF instant since destro must be de facto least mobile class-spec in the game. In the same vein, Shadowfury got a cast time now. Awesome.

http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=5740/rain-of-fire

Rain of Fire is a two second cast and lasts for eight seconds once cast. It's not channeled.