[Legion] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Nyel]

Is there any overview of our Void Form skills?

[Kaesebrezen]

Is there any overview of our Void Form skills?

Not that there are many - and even this few are already too much (as in you will deal no damage outside of Voidform):

Void Bolt(baseline): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=205448/void-bolt
Void Torrent(artifact): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=205065/void-torrent
Sphere of Insanity(artifact passive): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=1941...re-of-insanity
Mass Hysteria(artifact passive): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=194378/mass-hysteria

[Nyel]

Not that there are many - and even this few are already too much (as in you will deal no damage outside of Voidform):

Void Bolt(baseline): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=205448/void-bolt
Void Torrent(artifact): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=205065/void-torrent
Sphere of Insanity(artifact passive): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=1941...re-of-insanity
Mass Hysteria(artifact passive): http://legion.wowhead.com/spell=194378/mass-hysteria

Mhm, I thought there would be more than this. So we use Void Bolt & Void Torrent on CD and then we still cast Mind Flay? Sounds very enticing.

[Biomega]

I agree it would be nice to see some more mechanical variety. The obvious comparison to Demonology Metamorphosis shows what you can do with different skills in and out of a form. Not saying we should copy that for SPriests, but take inspiration from how things were different between the two forms there, and think about how you can make things different for Void Form, too.

[Deleted]

How do you feel about Legacy of the Void and Sinister thoughts?
While i think that snapshotting can be interesting, i'm not very confident with it having a ramp up mechanic. Seems to be overly complicated especialy in multidot situations.

Also, shadow priests still have the interrupt with the longest cd, and we don't have the gliph anymore to make it kind of usable in a pve rotation.

[Naga Coatl]

How do you feel about Legacy of the Void and Sinister thoughts?
While i think that snapshotting can be interesting, i'm not very confident with it having a ramp up mechanic. Seems to be overly complicated especialy in multidot situations.

Well, not really a fan of them, they are basically Shadow Orbs. Use Mind Blast X times, get empowered spell. So much for the 'rework'... :P

Also they are so similar that it wouldn't surprise me if at least one of them will be changed - to use Legacy of the Void you 'stop' the stacks of Sinister Thought if I understood them correctly, in the sense that you'll never go over 2/5 stacks.

[l33t]

Also, shadow priests still have the interrupt with the longest cd, and we don't have the gliph anymore to make it kind of usable in a pve rotation.

One can hope the glyph will be baked in base spell.

One can hope.

[Deleted]

It caps at 100% haste, but the drain continues to stack up to infinity.

No, it doesnt. Both are directly linked. Each stack increases haste with 1% and insanity drain by 1 every 2seconds.
Thought sustaining 100 stacks is only achievable with Surrender to madness and spam mindblast with no cooldown.

Hopefully the sphere of insanity is an orb you pick up to get the buff so you can save it for when you need aoe damage.

Thought most exited by mind controlling players as a form of a real cased cc.

[xdmemes]

Is it not more thematically appropriate for Shadow to get Void Shell instead of PW:S?

http://imgur.com/0JWhQ0D

[DarkieZ]

And im seriously amazed by the amount of blizzard white knights that defend them no matter what they do. Seriously if you are playing in top 10k guild and you're fine that you're 10 or 12 in your guild in dps killing boss 10 years after everyone else just do nothing. People here are not trying to make shadow worse, only better, and trying literally to sabotage them is most stupid idea ever.

If you're good at the spec you'll be brought to the raid. Barring a world first race scenario which almost none of you will ever be a part of.

[l33t]

If you're good at the spec you'll be brought to the raid. Barring a world first race scenario which almost none of you will ever be a part of.

So, its basically "Relax, unless you're top100, other raid members will carry you"?
What an awesome rework.

[Isentropy]

THIS 19571593518613095103575 times. In MoP and WoD beta almost every issue with shadow priest was dissmised by them because we have time, thats beta and there is much time to release game etc... And finally we were in same bad spot we were in start of the beta.

Most grave problems, these with mechanics and gameplay will be solved in early beta or never, because in later stages of beta they will not change it (there are blue post stating that they literally cannot do that because its against they policy), its only for number pass and any changes interfering with core abilities and talents can only be made around they dmg capabilities not mechanics. Its literally now or never.

And im seriously amazed by the amount of blizzard white knights that defend them no matter what they do. Seriously if you are playing in top 10k guild and you're fine that you're 10 or 12 in your guild in dps killing boss 10 years after everyone else just do nothing. People here are not trying to make shadow worse, only better, and trying literally to sabotage them is most stupid idea ever.

We were in a bad spot at the start of WoD? We really weren't though. Shadow was one of the best casters in there with really good single target damage as well as great priority target damage. The only thing that some people thought sucked was that you were forced to play Clarity of Power. The only thing shadow lacked in Highmaul was good AoE which meant Tectus was the only boss we sucked on. The rest of the bosses we were one of the best; if you were doing bad as shadow in Highmaul it had nothing to do with the spec.

As for the rest of the expansion it wasn't all that bad. In BRF we were good on the harder fights and really only struggled on single target fights but even then we weren't the worst. And HFC was just fine as well during progress.

It's always surprising to me how blind some people are to shadow's strengths. We're not the best spec right now, but do we have to be? This expansion has been just fine as a shadow priest player. If you're good at shadow you will be able to excel on most fights, if you're not then you won't. Who's to blame for that? There's plenty wrong with shadow but the sky isn't falling, honestly. People need to take a look at themselves before they bash the class.

[l33t]

People need to take a look at themselves before they bash the class.

Well, if I remember correctly, we were discussing Shadow priest's awesome rework in Legion. (Some) mechanics are already there, so people can watch videos, read talents and it is not hard to assume new Shadow's gameplay, strengthes and weaknesses. (Some) another people find that weaknesses greatly outweight "strengthes". That people are kind of disappointed, because for some stupid reason they thought that for once Blizzard would actually care about SP as a spec, since it was Blizzard who stated we will get a rework blah blah, and so on. DPS, damage dealt or anything number wise was not done, so nobody is talking about that. We are discussing nothing but tools we receive in Legion and tools we will lose in Legion as a result of rework. Nothing to look at themselves, you know.

[DarkieZ]

Except people have been complaining repeatedly about how bad shadow was in MoP and WoD. That isn't "nothing but tools we will receive in Legion..."

Oh, and reading still about how people were sat/kicked from their raids for being shadow priests. Zzzzzzzz

[Djriff]

People aren't being sat because shadow is weak, just because another class is better suited for the strat. Shadow priests are certainly viable and we will be in legion as well.

[Isentropy]

Well, if I remember correctly, we were discussing Shadow priest's awesome rework in Legion. (Some) mechanics are already there, so people can watch videos, read talents and it is not hard to assume new Shadow's gameplay, strengthes and weaknesses. (Some) another people find that weaknesses greatly outweight "strengthes". That people are kind of disappointed, because for some stupid reason they thought that for once Blizzard would actually care about SP as a spec, since it was Blizzard who stated we will get a rework blah blah, and so on. DPS, damage dealt or anything number wise was not done, so nobody is talking about that. We are discussing nothing but tools we receive in Legion and tools we will lose in Legion as a result of rework. Nothing to look at themselves, you know.

This thread is to discuss Shadow in Legion but the person I quoted said that shadow was bad during the beta and stayed that way on live as well, which is just not true. That is mainly what I'm aiming at when I say you need to look at yourself before bashing the class; there's always negativity surrounding shadow even when it's not that bad in reality, at least if you know what you're doing. We're on the first build of the Legion Alpha and there are indeed some talents that don't make sense when combined with other talents, and dots not generating insanity is questionable. This is all fine to discuss, but the issue I have is that people immediately point to the past (sometimes unwarranted) and conclude that because it doesn't look great right now Blizzard has failed and they hate us. It's dumb to assume things will change, but it's also dumb to assume that things will stay as they are. There's no need to always victimize yourself.

[Melchey]

We were in a bad spot at the start of WoD? We really weren't though. Shadow was one of the best casters in there with really good single target damage as well as great priority target damage. The only thing that some people thought sucked was that you were forced to play Clarity of Power. The only thing shadow lacked in Highmaul was good AoE which meant Tectus was the only boss we sucked on. The rest of the bosses we were one of the best; if you were doing bad as shadow in Highmaul it had nothing to do with the spec.

As for the rest of the expansion it wasn't all that bad. In BRF we were good on the harder fights and really only struggled on single target fights but even then we weren't the worst. And HFC was just fine as well during progress.

It's always surprising to me how blind some people are to shadow's strengths. We're not the best spec right now, but do we have to be? This expansion has been just fine as a shadow priest player. If you're good at shadow you will be able to excel on most fights, if you're not then you won't. Who's to blame for that? There's plenty wrong with shadow but the sky isn't falling, honestly. People need to take a look at themselves before they bash the class.

What you have to realize is that these people want shadow to be "THE DPS spec." We've been fine for years, meaning brought to fights (world first or not) and can contribute. A good shadow priest is a good asset to the raid, why else would you bring one? Do they carry the dps? No, not at all, but they do pretty decent damage on progression, and have for a long time. The people in the "SHADOW IS BAD"/"I WAS KICKED FROM MY GUILD CAUSE SHADOW" club are probably the same people who don't realize snapshotting was a thing, didn't know what hybrid healing meant back in MoP, or were just plain awful and are blaming the spec. Good shadow spriests did pretty good damage, just not CARRY THE RAID AFF LOCK DAMAGE or ARCANE MAGE 40 SECOND KILL damage. There's a world of difference there, but you commonly see a shadow priest brought to world first/top 10 kills, and that extends to ALL kills, which many even have more than one (UNBELIEVABLE, RIGHT?). But arguing with people who have the mentality that shadow is garbage is the same as them arguing that we're "white knighting" since we feel that despite all the issues and problems, we'll still see play in our raids no matter the position because the spec is viable.

"There's plenty wrong with shadow but the sky isn't falling, honestly." This is how it's been since BC. There are issues, mechanically and numerically, but to be worried that you'll be kicked from a guild/raid because of your spec is actually hilarious.

[l33t]

Except people have been complaining repeatedly about how bad shadow was in MoP and WoD. That isn't "nothing but tools we will receive in Legion..."

Shadow was awful during MoP and that is true. IMO, people who didn't reroll their Shadow and were a burden to their raid for the whole expansion should've got a Feat of strength or something. WoD is good in terms of pure dps, but not so good in terms of gameplay.

And still I fail to understand why we have to be the only class which has to deal with 100% of different mechanics while having only 50% of tools required to deal with them, while all other dps specs have 100% of tools. And, looking at "rework", this exact thing continues into Legion as well.

people immediately point to the past (sometimes unwarranted) and conclude that because it doesn't look great right now Blizzard has failed and they hate us. It's dumb to assume things will change, but it's also dumb to assume that things will stay as they are. There's no need to always victimize yourself.

I won't argue with you. I just want you to go and check Legion's Balance druid talents, spells and artifact. The spec that absolutely wasn't going to "receive a HUGE rework" in Legion. Than compare it to SP changes (the spec that did get a HUGE rework), and tell us all what do you think about the amount of love Blizzard gives to us. And please, be honest

[Isentropy]

I don't actually recall Blizzard promising us a huge rework (if they did I'd appreciate a source), they just realized they didn't like shadow orbs and mana was useless as a resource to us, so they came up with Voidform/Insanity and decided to change the theme of our class to be influenced by the Old Gods. I suppose it depends on your definition of rework. There's plenty of classes and specs that have received major changes that make them have a more distinct identity.

[l33t]

I don't actually recall Blizzard promising us a huge rework (if they did I'd appreciate a source), they just realized they didn't like shadow orbs and mana was useless as a resource to us, so they came up with Voidform/Insanity and decided to change the theme of our class to be influenced by the Old Gods. I suppose it depends on your definition of rework. There's plenty of classes and specs that have received major changes that make them have a more distinct identity.

You really want to play that card? Like, "They never said "we promise", so they didn't actually promise", that one? /facepalm.

Blizzard said: "shadow will receive a rework, surv hunter will receive a rework, combat rogue will receive a rework, and some other class changes as well". What does that mean, how do you think? Well, dunno what you think, but speaking of me, I could not even imagine them removing good half of our utility, last of our mobility, shadowform visuals and give us instead bad and boring Meta copy which we're not even in control of (also, now with 67% more spamming mind flay then ever, yay!). And placing most talents that could be a very great addition, an addition we were waiting for so long to come, to pve into pvp talent tree as well... What I was expecting was something akin to warlock's rework in Cata, or, more fresh, Combat->Outlaw rework (which looks like being totally awesome right at the moment, btw).


To be honest, if that is the final version of rework, mechanical-wise, I'd better stick with WoD's CoP priest forever and ever. At the very least it has instant blast, awesome execute phase and shadowform visuals.