[Legion] Discipline Priest Discussion

[PosPosPos]

They don't really have to do that, but it would be an issue for questing sure. But that's why there's an open world questing buff for healers, so it's not like they aren't concerned about that already. Was more pointing out that the balancing isn't really that difficult, and if the damage is too much you can nerf it and buff the conversion rate accordingly.

The numbers are easy to balance; to implement it is another thing altogether.

For open world questing, it's not a problem for the other healers who can't convert damage into healing, but it presents a problem for discipline priests in general.

[Melchey]

The numbers are easy to balance; to implement it is another thing altogether.

For open world questing, it's not a problem for the other healers who can't convert damage into healing, but it presents a problem for discipline priests in general.

Why would it be a problem? You can make the damage strong for questing without it affecting the healing, which is a mechanic that's already in place for atonement (damage buffs/reductions don't effect the healing outside schism).

[Djriff]

I don't think it would be difficult either. It could easily be set to do reduced damage in instances yet the healing from the damage could be calculated before the reduction.

[PosPosPos]

Why would it be a problem? You can make the damage strong for questing without it affecting the healing, which is a mechanic that's already in place for atonement (damage buffs/reductions don't effect the healing outside schism).

And for world bosses? For PvP? How about instanced and world PvP, of which the latter cuts directly into questing?

It's not just simple as a band aid fix. Easier said than done, without properly considering all inter-dependencies in such a big game on an old engine.

The resources going into implementing balancing disc dps in every different mode just because of one outlier mode(raids) is not worth it.

[Symmone]

In FFXIV you have an ability that essentially swaps your healing stats for damage stats (Cleric Stance). I play a healer in that game but its a class with wide diversity to also do damage when needed simply by swapping stances. Of course my healing goes down but I can help if dps is more required at any point in time during a fight. When the raid needs healing again I can swap back.

[PosPosPos]

In FFXIV you have an ability that essentially swaps your healing stats for damage stats (Cleric Stance). I play a healer in that game but its a class with wide diversity to also do damage when needed simply by swapping stances. Of course my healing goes down but I can help if dps is more required at any point in time during a fight. When the raid needs healing again I can swap back.

That is essentially Holy Priest with Chakras. We all know how that turned out.

I personally didn't mind Chakra, but the mindset of most WoW players in general, is that healers should heal and not dps. This is obviously not true, but it's a big reason why Chakra isn't popular(other than the perceived tax on single target or multi target healing depending on which Chakra you picked).

[Symmone]

That was essentially Holy Priest with Chakras. We all know how that turned out.

The current holy build is essentially just blue chakra since it incorporates the CD reduction as a whole to different pools.

[PosPosPos]

The current holy build is essentially just blue chakra since it incorporates the CD reduction as a whole to different pools.

But it is a fact that it works fundamentally the same as the "versatile" healer class you play in FFXIV.

You theoretically use red chakra if you want to deal more damage during a period of low damage, and pick blue or yellow if you want to heal, yet people complain about the whole system regardless.

[Djriff]

People didn't like chakras because they we're weird and awkward and originally had a 30 second CD. You were heavily penalized for being in the wrong chakra at the wrong time and no other healer had to deal with that.

[Symmone]

I only mentioned it because someone was talking about wanting to increase damage output as a disc and then another suggested changing stats. It reminded me of the Cleric Stance in FFXIV.

There are a lot of really good gameplay and class aspects integrated into FFXIV however the atmosphere of raiding seems to minimize competition and optimization simply for the sake of not creating elitism...at least thats my impression.


Also not intending to derail the conversation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

Chakra's were really fun in PvP once you got your 4p bonus in mists(reduced it to 5s).

Really enjoyed messing around with it as my off spec in bg's. I don't think it would be the way to go however for disc, if you have stances they have to be meaningful difference between them otherwise if they are just trivial, ppl will just say whats the point, you're putting in unnecessary mechanics for minimal gain.

And conversely if the stances bring a large difference blizz seems to think they must have a cooldown so they end too punishing(supposedly) for being caught in the wrong stance. Like i said tho 5s cooldown worked really well in pvp therefore would be light years of time to switch in pve, with for thought and encounter knowledge.

Meanwhile druids get Balance/Feral/Guardian Affinity as a passive talent so go figure

[Melchey]

And for world bosses? For PvP? How about instanced and world PvP, of which the latter cuts directly into questing?

It's not just simple as a band aid fix. Easier said than done, without properly considering all inter-dependencies in such a big game on an old engine.

The resources going into implementing balancing disc dps in every different mode just because of one outlier mode(raids) is not worth it.

Dunno why it has to be because disc damage is high in raids only. If it's high in any PvE setting that extends to all PvE areas. But you're extrapolating at this point. If the real issue is disc does too much damage, they only need to nerf it and buff atonement accordingly. What I was saying is that if the damage portion was insignificant (which won't happen, as stated before), there are reasons to bring a disc otherwise. There's no issue of random balancing being needed in certain areas following a nerf of either light or heavy value because there's already mechanics in place to account for such issues, like the healer damage boost while questing.

[Noradin]

They could do that, but it's incredibly bad design because they would then have to hardcode the conversion and damage depending on the content involved.

Isn't that what they are already doing?

[PosPosPos]

Isn't that what they are already doing?

There's just one for open world pve and one for raids currently.

If you want to suggest to blizzard to do it for every game mode, by all means.

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Dunno why it has to be because disc damage is high in raids only. If it's high in any PvE setting that extends to all PvE areas. But you're extrapolating at this point. If the real issue is disc does too much damage, they only need to nerf it and buff atonement accordingly. What I was saying is that if the damage portion was insignificant (which won't happen, as stated before), there are reasons to bring a disc otherwise. There's no issue of random balancing being needed in certain areas following a nerf of either light or heavy value because there's already mechanics in place to account for such issues, like the healer damage boost while questing.

So you are saying that balance doesn't matter if it's not in raids?

[Melchey]

So you are saying that balance doesn't matter if it's not in raids?

Lmao not at all. Keep extrapolating from absolutely nothing, it's entertaining.

[Deleted]

Do you think that Discipline might become too OP in Legion PvP? I mean two healing schools: shadow and holy. When you get interupted on holy you can cast shadow spels. That seems a huge bonus for me. + dmg will be really high for a healer spec. Not that i'm complaining , just curious if this can really go live?

[Symmone]

We have more holy spells than shadow...its a bit one sided. Not sure how that will play out in pvp or if they plan to add more shadow spells for us to round out the class lore a little better.


Also, now that Blizzard confirmed schism increases atonement healing will it be a legit contender between castigation? And Searing Light looks really cool however its only for PvP -.-


Searing Light: When you deal damage with Smite the cooldown of your Penance is reduced by 1 sec, and increases the damage done by your Penance by 30%. Discipline Priest - Tier 3 PvP Talent.

[Deleted]

Also, now that Blizzard confirmed schism increases atonement healing will it be a legit contender between castigation?

Yes, given the encounter/situation doesn't require constant atonement applications but rather focused healing or burst or your dps.



So the gain is at best sth. like 188% SP every 18s

Important about Schism

Does not increase Shadowfiend/Mindbender Damage
Schism deals 300% SP itself. If that is actually better than a Smite is hard to assess in terms of healing, since Smite also has the absorb effect. The less targets, the better is Smite.
That is also true for Power Word: Solace. On top, solace has a 12s CD while Schism has 18s. Since both shouldn't be delayed, they most likely rarely line up
The Smite-absorb is neither affected by Invoke the Light nor by Schism.

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Also note that it forces you into a fixed 8-GCD rotation every 18s, which is more than 50% of our whole time. That is usually considered as rather medium cool. Also lots of room for errors here, especially like delaying penance

Purge - PW:S - Schism - Penance - Smite x3 - PW:S

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If someone is really bored, it would be very interesting what the proc-rate of Power of the Dark side is. If it's rppm or static. And if latter, if that rate is a different for Purge than for PWS, since Purge ticks at a higher frequency.

[deviantcultist]

Did they make Power of the Dark Side no longer turn Penance into a shadow version and instead just empower it? Is this another minus for the shadow part of Disc?:/

[Jimjam38]

and you wouldn't put a 20-sec duration on Shadowform. It just breaks the gameplay.

RIGHT? LOL. That would be hilarious.

This made me laugh.

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Exactly my thoughts aswell.

And to top it off, they removed weakened soul, so if disc is viable on both dps and hps, you might even want to bring a few of them

Okay before we all go any further down this very stupid path of "well if disc can do so much dps why not just stack them" nek minnut disc nerfed, lets address some core issues with the idea.

Firstly, lets see the evidence that disc does so much damage while still being a competitive healer? Lets see all the logs. Because from what I've seen on the logs that actually have a boss kill, while good disc priests are easily competitive with other healers, their damage is never more than the tanks and is always far far lower than any dps who actually know what they're doing. So lets stop with all the anecdotal evidence and gets some real evidence.

Secondly, lets see how much damage a disc priest can do if they focus on DPS and ignore healing. Someone find a log of that, because I'm certain it won't be enough to start replacing actual dps.

Thirdly, "why bring other healers when disc can heal just as well and also do some damage?" Well those other healers can do damage too, they don't have to just AFK when there's nothing to heal. Lets see how much damage a hpriest does when it weaves in its dps spells, lets see how much hps it loses to do that? Here's a log with 2 disc, a resto sham and a mw monk: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hVgtnwyPC1QpvH4f#type=damage-done The sham did 20mil more healing than the better disc. The better disc did 27mil more damage than the sham. But the sham only did 12 dps casts, and the priest did over 150 dps casts. The sham could have added an easy 10mil damage just from keeping flameshock up and the impact on his healing would have been minimal. Doing so would put the disc and sham on equal grounds in terms of total damage and healing done.

In terms of total healing and damage done, the better disc did 92 mil, the sham did 85 mil, the mw did 75 mil, the balance druids did 81 and 76 mil, the guardian druid did 88 mil, the warlock did 75 mil, the ret pala did 114 mil, the spriest did 131 mil, the fire mage did 144 mil.
Are we gonna start stacking all those classes that beat the mw monk? What about the ones that beat the sham? Should we stack those too?

Lets stop with this stupid conversation until they've finished designing and tuning all the specs, artifacts and encounters, and when people actually know how to play their newly changed specs, THEN, AND ONLY THEN, do we start asking the question "Is disc's dps/hps too high?"