[LEGION] Mistweaving Discussion

[Floopa]

The max range seems to be 60 yards. If you're standing inside or really close to the cloud it heals for 5 ticks, but if you're standing at 60 yard range it only ticks twice.

The travel time of the bolts is really slow and if the cloud disappears, the bolts that are still traveling don't heal anymore so you lose healing ticks depending on how far away you are

does it heal everyone or just certain ppl?

[Spotnick]

Do you think it would be a good idea for Blizzard to give us Xuen's version of CJL instead of the one we have right now? (reminder: it cleaves 3 extra targets).

I can't see why this would be OP, but that would be a much better dps tool at range than what we have. Could also be 2 different spells, or again, TFT modifier. I even posted on the beta forums that we should have a proc to make CJL instant (Suplift suggested TFT there as well) just like Chain Lightning for enhance shamans.

I'll wait to see where they are going with the melee spells of course.

Sorry if I don't focus much on healing spells right now, but the experience on the alpha to level as a mistweaver is just the most painful thing I've seen since leveling a mage back in the days. Of course you don't die, but the rotation is complete snooze fest, and nothing dies. So this is one thing I'm hoping will be fixed, better game play for solo-questing and others, which would lead to a better experience overall.

I have huge fear they won't change it and we'll be stock with this atrocious game play. I have a feeling they want to limit the amount of dps spells so more casual people don't have more spells to use than one action bar can contain, which is probably why they created the crane stance in the first place.

Healing is important of course, but plenty of time to address it as well unless it's major game design flaws.

And yes, I know tuning isn't done, but it's hard to not give feedback on that because every time I log on the alpha I just don't want to level.. maybe I should give up and swap to windwalker. Sadly I missed the days where SCK was very good to level.

[Catbug]

Maybe make it so thunderfocus tea makes your crackling lightning hit 3 targets and deal twice as much damage?

[Phinkydo]

but the experience on the alpha to level as a mistweaver is just the most painful thing I've seen since

I started to lvl a MW last night and it was rather painful i also found that Tiger palm had almost no place because the global for TP+the 30% buff was less damage than just using another BoK unless of course everything was on CD then the only option was to TP but it didn't flow well, SCK needs to make RSK/BoK cleave when it hits 3 targets.
Definitely needs some interaction between TFT and damaging abilities even if it doubled the buff from TP or something would help.

[Geodew]

CJL with permanent cleave is a bad idea because then they have to lower its power so it's not OP for 3 targets, and oops now it's shit for single-target.

I also disagree that TFT needs a DPS benefit at all.

[xdmemes]

I also disagree that TFT needs a DPS benefit at all.

Care to elaborate?

[Deleted]

CJL with permanent cleave is a bad idea because then they have to lower its power so it's not OP for 3 targets, and oops now it's shit for single-target.

I also disagree that TFT needs a DPS benefit at all.

Could give it the SE&F treatment

[Geodew]

Care to elaborate?

I've said this before, but since some of you are new: It means you lose an on-demand HPS cooldown in exchange for pretty much nothing because our DPS will be balanced around whether we can TFT for extra DPS or not because it's very important that we never do close to what any real DPS specs can pull... whereas being able to slightly vary your HPS with time is very important for a healing role. Not so much for DPS, especially DPS from a healer. So if you had to choose which one you could vary, you'd choose healing.

[Phinkydo]

Good point but couldn't it be done without adding damage but having healing component via FW i.e. your next BoK heals x targets for y damage done (eminence) it would obviously be the lowest HPS option from TFT however providing something when there's almost no healing to be done and you don't want to over-ride TFT.

Rather then trying to BoK>TFT ReM>BoK whilst FW it would actually give TP some value TP>TFT BoK etc

It just felt really awkward using TFT for the sake of using it.(I know I could just not use it but it feels wasted :/)

[Supliftz]

Well realistically in a dungeon you're not using TFT just because. You're using to keep up EnM uptime on the tank/raid to allow you more time to dps.

In a raid setting your main goal to keep good uptime of a rem blanket, so this is only problem if there's zero tank/raid damage.

It's still probably fine to add a damage benefit for those scenarios.

[Geodew]

Well realistically in a dungeon you're not using TFT just because. You're using to keep up EnM uptime on the tank/raid to allow you more time to dps.

What do you mean by this? Using TFT on EM for additional DPS saves you 1/3 of a GCD and 2 seconds of autoattacks over just hard-casting the EM. Hardly noteworthy.

[Supliftz]

What do you mean by this? Using TFT on EM for additional DPS saves you 1/3 of a GCD and 2 seconds of autoattacks over just hard-casting the EM. Hardly noteworthy.

Isn't that what I said?

Punchy is saying you're using TFT just because, i'm saying you're using it to allow you more time to dps?

[Geodew]

Good point but couldn't it be done without adding damage but having healing component via FW i.e. your next BoK heals x targets for y damage done (eminence) it would obviously be the lowest HPS option from TFT however providing something when there's almost no healing to be done and you don't want to over-ride TFT.

Rather then trying to BoK>TFT ReM>BoK whilst FW it would actually give TP some value TP>TFT BoK etc

It just felt really awkward using TFT for the sake of using it.(I know I could just not use it but it feels wasted :/)

Suggesting that TFT-<Fistweave Ability> give healing is somewhat missing my point, though. You're still consuming TFT's cooldown to do very little (yet it's optimal to do so, so you don't waste ~half a cooldown multiple times throughout the fight), so then its cooldown isn't up when raid damage starts up again in e.g. 15 seconds.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't that what I said?

Punchy is saying you're using TFT just because, i'm saying you're using it to allow you more time to dps?

You made it sound like TFT-EM is amazing, so maybe I misunderstood, but it seems like a pretty trivial DPS gain to me. Punchy said TFT-ReM...?

[Phinkydo]

I was suggesting that during very low damage where you are not using TFT-EM so your options either:

1. TFT-ReM to blanket the party and as a filler between BoK CD.
2.Ignore TFTs and just TP as a filler.

Since we have no passive healing I was opting for Using TFT-ReM to keep people topped and because TP does little damage even with the 30% buff to BoK it felt fine to ignore using it as long as I kept using RSK/BoK on cd. Overall more Globals spent on RSK/BoK felt like it was doing more damage then spending any globals on TP.
But it still felt odd mixing so many ReMs between FW hence if TFT gave BoL/TP some benefit be it healing or damage it would fix the issue of just ignoring TP

As we get more haste I see it being bigger problem when your globals are full from just using RSK TFT ReM ReM BoK repeat etc

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current iteration a build that does max hps/dps priority will be TFT>ReM>RSK>BoK with haste being favoured stat our GCDs will be fill.
My original post was just detailing that TP in its current form is obsolete but is it possible to fix it with TFT which would also give some synergy.

TLDR
Using more globals on BoK nets more RSK, more RSK nets more TFTs between weaving in ReMs/Zen Pulse there is no need to use TP as it delays BoKs and therefore RSKs when weaving in other abilities. Having TFT have interaction with BoK/TP can fix the issue with TP being dps loss (no math done btw) unless they make TP absurdly strong but then you would result in spamming TP?

[Supliftz]

You made it sound like TFT-EM is amazing, so maybe I misunderstood, but it seems like a pretty trivial DPS gain to me. Punchy said TFT-ReM...?

Well TFT-EnM is what you're primarily using a dungeon setting. Which is what my post is talking about.

@punchy I think adding a tft option would be fairly minor in reality. But it would be nice to have for a min max dps scenario.

[Rife]

A few posts here have mentioned that MW in Legion are great or Godlike 5 man healers; maybe the best 5 man healer tested so far.

If we have the toolkit and HPS to be great in 5 mans, what are we lacking in a raid that would make us great there too? Would having Essence Font be fixed and become useful for mass AoE healing make us raid viable?

I get the feeling MW is fantastic in 5's but mediocre/bad in the 20 mans tested. What gives?

[Supliftz]

Current mistweaver blankets the raid in renewing mist and spams vivify/rjw depending on the situation with dps spells as a filler.

Don't really get how this could be bad in a raid setting.

7.0 mistweaver's problem have nothing to do with it's healing abilities. It's a problem with a lack of utility.

[Geodew]

Well TFT-EnM is what you're primarily using a dungeon setting. Which is what my post is talking about.

You're primarily using TFT-EM? I'd think in harder dungeons, TFT-Vivify (at least to save time from drinking in a challenge dungeon) or TFT-ReM (to help cover AoE while you spam the tank) would be significantly stronger in general. I mean, how much can you really do with an extra 0.5 seconds every 30 seconds? TFT-EM seems more like a mobility or oh-shit benefit to me.

[Supliftz]

Because we're talking about using rising thunder in dungeons, meaning you can use tft more often. You cycle between tft-rem and tft enm due to mana being irrelevant in dungeons outside of overpulling, and you want to focus on dps.

[cqwrteur]

Because believe it or not, Revival's dispell is actually one of our very few utility.

It might be some kind of utility, but I would argue it's a confusing utility. People don't know what effect revival could dispel.