Muslim workers in Fort Morgan fired over prayer dispute walkout

[Underverse]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29...prayer-dispute

The event:

About 150 workers, most of them immigrants from Somalia, have been fired from a meat packing and distribution plant on Colorado's Eastern Plains for walking off the job to protest a workplace prayer dispute.

The cause:

Depending on the season, the Muslim workers prayed at different times of the day, typically in about five-to-10 minute blocks, Hussein said. But recently a decision was made at the plant to change the practice.

"The workers were told: 'If you want to pray, go home,' " Hussein said.

Many of the workers, some who support family with their earnings, banded together and decided to walk off the job in an attempt to sway plant managers to reinstate a prayer schedule.

Hussein and Jenifer Wicks, also of CAIR, were negotiating with Cargill. On Tuesday, they were told of the mass firing.

Hussein said company officials told him the mass dismissal was over a "no call, no show, walk out."

"It's disappointing," Hussein said.

The workers have previously been using time carved out of a 15-minute break period, or time from their unpaid 30-minute lunch break.

The justification:

Last week, Mike Martin, director of communications for Cargill, told the Greeley Tribune that employees of all faiths are allowed to use a reflection area, but that because employees work on an assembly line only one or two at a time can use the area, to avoid slowing production.

He told the Tribune company policies had not changed.

Do you guys think this is reasonable, for either party? If working on an assembly line, is it reasonable for a large portion of the workforce to walk off at specific times of the day? Sure, Cargill could implement scheduled breaks around this minority, but then you'd be restricting the freedom of a majority.

What about for the employees? Is it okay for this company to restrict the number of people who leave the assembly line at any given time, even if it infringes on a religious belief?

Being an atheist, I don't see an issue with this - if the company is suffering production losses, then they are within their rights to fire those employees who are causing their production losses.

[Kraenen]

I'm of the opinion that we should treat religious beliefs like any other - not special or subsidized. In that sense there is no pragmatic or objective need for them to have done what they did and could simply do it at home. If they can use their mythology to get out of work, why couldn't I make up some religion and use that? That would be silly, and it should be silly no matter how many followers one has. Everyone should be entitled to the same break schedule of course, not more, certainly not for supernatural beliefs.

Other than that it's a dumb move to risk your job for a 5 minute prayer session while your entire family is depending on you.

[Adam Jensen]

If smokers can kill their lungs for five minute breaks, why can't deists have five minute breaks to pray to their god? So long as it doesn't cut into productivity.

Hell, people are mandated breaks every few hours by government law anyways.

[GennGreymane]

If smokers can kill their lungs for five minute breaks, why can't deists have five minute breaks to pray to their god? So long as it doesn't cut into productivity.

Hell, people are mandated breaks every few hours by government law anyways.

I will have to agree here. There is def a more reasonable compromise to be made.

[Kraenen]

If smokers can kill their lungs for five minute breaks, why can't deists have five minute breaks to pray to their god? So long as it doesn't cut into productivity.

Hell, people are mandated breaks every few hours by government law anyways.

Why should smokers be given subsidy for their unhealthy habit? Do non-smokers get the same smoke break?

[Underverse]

If smokers can kill their lungs for five minute breaks, why can't deists have five minute breaks to pray to their god? So long as it doesn't cut into productivity.

Hell, people are mandated breaks every few hours by government law anyways.

The issue here isn't the time, it's that they all go at once.

Although personally, I am of the opinion that exceptions should not be made for smokers either.

[Saverem]

No, it's not reasonable to give them a 15 minute prayer break. If they want to pray during work hours, that's fine, but they have to use their break time to do so.

No religion should give special treatment (like extra breaks) for workers unless stated in a contract.


If they all want to pray at the same time, that's also a no go. Companies require at least some people on hand to handle the machinery. Deal with it or find another job.

[GennGreymane]

No, it's not reasonable to give them a 15 minute prayer break. If they want to pray during work hours, that's fine, but they have to use their break time to do so.

No religion should give special treatment (like extra breaks) for workers unless stated in a contract.

Thats a very agreeable solution. It can be done during their break and them going in smaller groups rather than all at once. Thats a good place to start.

[zenkai]

Why should smokers be given subsidy for their unhealthy habit? Do non-smokers get the same smoke break?

In America, a company has to give you a legal 15 minute break for every 4 hours of work and a 30 min lunch for every 5 hours of work. I don't see many companies giving people special smoke breaks these days.

[Fencers]

Employer's discretion to fire employees is their right legally in the US. You can be fired for almost any reason on a whim without a work contract.

No religious observance should be respected philosophically.

[Underverse]

No, it's not reasonable to give them a 15 minute prayer break. If they want to pray during work hours, that's fine, but they have to use their break time to do so.

No religion should give special treatment (like extra breaks) for workers unless stated in a contract.

They are using their break time. The issue isn't the time here, but the fact that they all go at once, which significantly hampers productivity, as compared with just one or two leaving at a time.

[Endus]

It said they were using time from their 15-minute breaks and 30-minute lunch periods, not asking for additional time off that other workers wouldn't get.

This is where "undue hardship" comes in. Are they having to shut the line down while the Muslim workers are on break, or can they adjust break schedules to account for their desired scheduling? Then there isn't an issue. And such accomodations are to be expected.

Why should smokers be given subsidy for their unhealthy habit? Do non-smokers get the same smoke break?

Again, the article clearly stated that everyone was getting the same break times, and that the Muslim workers weren't getting any extra time off. The issue was solely that they wanted their breaks to coincide with prayer times, which are at specific points during the day. Using Denver as a guideline (since this was in CO), those times would be as listed here; http://www.islamicfinder.org/prayerD...ntry=usa&lang=

It isn't about additional break time. It's just about break scheduling.

[Deleted]

if you wanna pray go home sums it up quite nicely

[Underverse]

Thats a very agreeable solution. It can be done during their break and them going in smaller groups rather than all at once. Thats a good place to start.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Islam requires that follower pray at specific times of the day.

[Powerogue]

"The workers have previously been using time carved out of a 15-minute break period, or time from their unpaid 30-minute lunch break."

that seems perfectly fair. It's not like they're receiving some special advantage here. They're using time they were already given for other breaks. If they'd rather pray than eat, that's their problem.

[zenkai]

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29...prayer-dispute

The event:



The cause:



The justification:



Do you guys think this is reasonable, for either party? If working on an assembly line, is it reasonable for a large portion of the workforce to walk off at specific times of the day? Sure, Cargill could implement scheduled breaks around this minority, but then you'd be restricting the freedom of a majority.

What about for the employees? Is it okay for this company to restrict the number of people who leave the assembly line at any given time, even if it infringes on a religious belief?

Being an atheist, I don't see an issue with this - if the company is suffering production losses, then they are within their rights to fire those employees who are causing their production losses.

I agree with the company, you can't accommodate every one, don't like it, find another job

[GennGreymane]

If they were already suing their given breaks, then the best solution is to simply set it up where small groups go out instead of all of them.

[Adam Jensen]

The issue here isn't the time, it's that they all go at once.

Although personally, I am of the opinion that exceptions should not be made for smokers either.

That is not acceptable at all. You can't just have a huge chunk of the workforce go "lol time to pray" all at once.

And I agree about the smokers. They can smoke on the same break everyone gets. And the religious folks can go pray on that break.

[Saverem]

They are using their break time. The issue isn't the time here, but the fact that they all go at once, which significantly hampers productivity, as compared with just one or two leaving at a time.

Then the answer should be "No."

Again, no special treatment should be given to any one religion unless stated in the hiring contract. If it's not, then they should either pray at different times or find a job that lets them pray when they need to.

I have no sympathy for those workers and they deserved to get fired.

[mrcristy]

Walk off work get fired.

Seems like basic cause and effect to me.