What happened to the RTS genre?

[Yunru]

Modifications happened.







People still play them.

Also it seems like generation 3 strategy games were a disaster and since devlopers love to put high end grafic into everything, it backfired.
Once the grafic rush ends, strategy games will be back.

Gen 4 disaster example:

(to much changes and free to play bullshit)

In other words..if it doesnt print money, they wont make it.

[Wildmoon]

Dead in consideration to what it was in WoL, and where it "should" be. But fair point, guess it still floats around as top 15-20 most played on twitch.

Well, other games just went ahead of it in popularity after SC2 kinda paved the way for modern Esport. I was not surprised though. I was asking myself how long could the game remain at the top when so many casual players were complaining about balance issues(stupid complaints) and the community's answers to them was only "it was not an issue because you suck". The sad thing is the answer was true.

[Guy4123]

I think one of the problems is developers tried to go too far away from pretty standard and core game play mechanics for RTS games and failed miserably a lot. They tried to reinvent the wheel and we ended up with franchise killers like Command and Conquer 4.

Resource gathering, base building, unit production, and large or unlimited supply caps. A lot of RTS games keep trying to go too far away from one or multiple parts of these and they keep doing it in terrible ways that just seem to make the games feel lesser for it. Dawn of War 2 is so alien compared to the first one it shouldn't even hold the same title.

Starcraft 2's problem isn't really the game itself, but that battle net 2.0 was a giant pile of shit and worse than battle net 1.0 until LotV, and it's now only kinda on par. One of the things that kept SC1 alive for so long was custom made maps and the online interface for SC2 has been so shit for so long that the same 5-8 custom maps were all you could ever play unless you wanted to wait 7 hours for people. People didn't want to play desert strike or desert strike, with maybe desert strike and possible a nexus wars all day every day, so they stopped playing. I know I did until LotV came out (I like the single player campaigns), and I was pretty happy to notice the online UI was made to not be super complete horse shit.

[Deleted]

Wut?

You said that specifically Blizzard "kept releasing RTS'", but they've ever only released two, with their expansions and sequels, and one of those two, so 50%, is current, and being played right now, and that has gotten expansions and will most likely get more. Also, I'm sure StarCraft 3 is being worked on right now, at least on some level.

Warcraft 2, StarCraft, Warcraft 3, these games literally invented e-sports as a concept

I must've missed the Warcraft 2 eSports competely, back in 1995, when we barely even had a proper internet, and I'm guessing concerning Warcraft 3 you're referring to DotA, which isn't Warcraft 3, at all.

Like what games?

Deserts of Kharak, the remastered versions of Homeworld and Homeworld 2, Blitzkrieg 3, Total War: Arena, Grey Goo, Etherium, CoH 2 British Forces expansion, Act of Aggression, Avalon Lords... Those are some relatively new and upcoming RTS titles, expansions and so on, whether they're good or not.

C&C (and Red Alert) most definitely hasn't been abandoned completely although they're keeping shit under wraps if anything is in development right now. Warcraft 4 of course can't really be developed as long as WoW is active (which will be for quite a few years longer.) Dawn of War 3 is under development in some phase or another.

I guess I've just gotten so old that a few years seems like a few days, and as such I'm not pining for new shit to be released every few months, and that might of course skew my view on the state of the RTS genre.

[thilicen]

I would love another CnC, or another Generals for that matter. But the CnC franchise is pure gold.
The orginial Tiberium wars as well as Red alert are still among my favorite games ever. Generals was excellent as well.

[Wildmoon]

You said that specifically Blizzard "kept releasing RTS'", but they've ever only released two, with their expansions and sequels, and one of those two, so 50%, is current, and being played right now, and that has gotten expansions and will most likely get more. Also, I'm sure StarCraft 3 is being worked on right now, at least on some level.

From WC2 then SC1 to WC3. That's three games. Three games with one xpac for each of them are a lot for big title. Not to mention there were plenty of big rts in that period. Your point that there was no golden age of RTS is wrong.

[Deleted]

EA happened. Blew up westwood, then managed to make a team and make a decent C&C3, but then instead of keeping to polish the formula went on about trying to revamp the genre with RA3's co-op and super scripted structure in the single player campaigns and the removal of bases in C&C4. So, yes... EA and their incompetent developers destroyed C&C.

Age of empires ran its course though. All they could make is one set in the future. Maybe they could make another mythology game aswell, but the franchise is a bit constrained.

[Thrif]

Starcraft 2's problem isn't really the game itself, but that battle net 2.0 was a giant pile of shit and worse than battle net 1.0 until LotV

Haha, I had completely repressed that memory. Remember when SC2 first came out, and I logged on. And I have never. In my life. Felt so lonely like that interface made me feel. And Blizzard had said they wanted it to feel friendly and interactive, but without chat channels and stuff, it just felt so utterly dead. Channels, clans, custom games, things like that kept sc1 and war3 alive for so long, and none of that was really implemented in sc1 at first. Well, there are custom games, but like you said, only half a dozen that you can play without waiting forever.

Once again, Blizz proved that they really have no idea why their early games were such huge successes.

[Deleted]

The orginial Tiberium wars

Tiberium Wars was Command & Conquer 3. The original Command & Conquer, originally, was just that. It wasn't called "Tiberian Dawn" until after C&C 2 came out. So, if you'd want to refer to the original the way it was originally referred to, you'd just call it C&C.

[Wildmoon]

Deserts of Kharak, the remastered versions of Homeworld and Homeworld 2, Blitzkrieg 3, Total War: Arena, Grey Goo, Etherium, CoH 2 British Forces expansion, Act of Aggression, Avalon Lords... Those are some relatively new and upcoming RTS titles, expansions and so on, whether they're good or not.

C&C (and Red Alert) most definitely hasn't been abandoned completely although they're keeping shit under wraps if anything is in development right now. Warcraft 4 of course can't really be developed as long as WoW is active (which will be for quite a few years longer.) Dawn of War 3 is under development in some phase or another.

I guess I've just gotten so old that a few years seems like a few days, and as such I'm not pining for new shit to be released every few months, and that might of course skew my view on the state of the RTS genre.

None of the game you mentioned are big hitter with big budget behind them which are gonna impact the market in significant way. RTS back in the day was a big genre.

[thilicen]

Tiberium Wars was Command & Conquer 3. The original Command & Conquer, originally, was just that. It wasn't called "Tiberian Dawn" until after C&C 2 came out. So, if you'd want to refer to the original the way it was originally referred to, you'd just call it C&C.

Yes I know, I meant the series - As there are currently 3 CnC series to my memory: Tiberium, Red Alert and Generals

[Wildmoon]

Haha, I had completely repressed that memory. Remember when SC2 first came out, and I logged on. And I have never. In my life. Felt so lonely like that interface made me feel. And Blizzard had said they wanted it to feel friendly and interactive, but without chat channels and stuff, it just felt so utterly dead. Channels, clans, custom games, things like that kept sc1 and war3 alive for so long, and none of that was really implemented in sc1 at first. Well, there are custom games, but like you said, only half a dozen that you can play without waiting forever.

Once again, Blizz proved that they really have no idea why their early games were such huge successes.

Relatively SC2 remains relevant longer than SC1 in international scene. SC1 thrived in korea but kinda fell off in other places in the world.

[KOMO1211]

as long as EA owns C&C im afraid to see how much further down they can drag the franchise

also there are a few promising looking games coming down the pipes but i think we can def all agree the "golden age" of RTS was roughly 95-2005. for me nothing has ever come close to rise of nations in terms of perfection.

[thilicen]

as long as EA owns C&C im afraid to see how much further down they can drag the franchise

also there are a few promising looking games coming down the pipes but i think we can def all agree the "golden age" of RTS was roughly 95-2005. for me nothing has ever come close to rise of nations in terms of perfection.

That was indeed one hell of a game.

[Darksoldierr]

Back when Blizzard kept releasing RTS. Also C&C,AoE,etc. RTS games were very significant part of the industry.

Blizzard just released a new RTS, like 3 months ago

[Wildmoon]

Blizzard just released a new RTS, like 3 months ago

They will likely not release another. Anyway, my point was that how big RTS was back in the day.

[procne]

There were times when RTS games seemed new, innovative and interesting. Dune 2, C&C, Warcraft 2, Age of Empires, Starcraft. But they usually utilised the same formula which has gotten boring, at least to me. Recently I played World of Goo. It was similar to old school RTS games - build a base, defend it, build army, destroy enemy. Got bored after 5th mission and never played it again. But 15 years ago I would be pretty excited about a game like this.

[Thrif]

I'm guessing concerning Warcraft 3 you're referring to DotA, which isn't Warcraft 3, at all.

And here is the point. Why do you argue about how big the RTS genre was, when you have no clue whatsoever and is just guessing?

http://www.esportsearnings.com/games

WarCraft 3 was a titan in e-sports. It is game with 4th most tournaments didicated to it and it has still had more prize money than Hearthstone, five times as much as dota1, and the only seven games that ever had higher price pools are StarCraft and 6 games that are popular today. Now, take a moment to consider how much smaller prize pools was back in 2005, and how much scarcer tournaments, and you're beginning to understand how just how much of a titan this game truly was.

[Kolvarg]

The most recent one I tried and really liked for being different/refreshing on the standart formula was Company of Heroes, might want to give a try at that.

Other than that I'd say the Stronghold series are still my favorite in the genre, although story really isn't the reason why, just gameplay =P


But yea, there's no special reason for RTS not to be as big/relevant as they once were.

Gamers changed (a lot).
Times changed.
Different things become popular and what was once popular slowly gets forgotten.

If it wasn't that way, we'd all still be playing physical games/sports, listening only to ancient/folk music, if you get what we mean =P

[Guy4123]

Haha, I had completely repressed that memory. Remember when SC2 first came out, and I logged on. And I have never. In my life. Felt so lonely like that interface made me feel. And Blizzard had said they wanted it to feel friendly and interactive, but without chat channels and stuff, it just felt so utterly dead. Channels, clans, custom games, things like that kept sc1 and war3 alive for so long, and none of that was really implemented in sc1 at first. Well, there are custom games, but like you said, only half a dozen that you can play without waiting forever.

Once again, Blizz proved that they really have no idea why their early games were such huge successes.

It should be considered one of the most epic failures in gaming history, next to C&C 4, that Blizzard released SC2 with such an abomination for an online interface, and then take FIVE YEARS to make it on par with a system they created in 1998.