Best MOBA of all time

[pateuvasiliu]

Man, that is REALLY ironic here.

So not only you make your own definition for ''paytowin'' but you also made your own for ''Ironic'' ?

[Floopa]

I'm more surprised HoN still exists.

all because of the "fabulous" announcer pack

seriously i want it ported to dota tbh

[Jester Joe]

Not my fault you think definitions are subjective and you get to make your own.

It's more of a pay to advantage, or to get there quicker.

Pay to win would make you literally win if you pay more, which doesn't happen in HotS if you're still unskilled, and anyone can get all the heroes without cash.

LoL takes it a bit further because of the runes, not sure exactly the details on them though honestly.

[pateuvasiliu]

Pay to win would make you literally win if you pay more

No it wouldn't. No game makes you win if you pay more. That's just taking the definition to the literal sense of paying to win.

Pay to win means real money giving you ingame advantages.

The degree varies from Korean MMOs where you can buy BiS gear to buying level ups and heroes.

[pateuvasiliu]

And you're using a definition so loose that we might as well count, "Buying a game" as "Paying to win". So yeah.

No. You're being obtuse on purpose.

''Pay to win'' doesn't literally mean you pay to win, because no developer will sell you wins, they'll give you gear.

Pay to win means getting ingame advantages through the usage of real money. That spans from buying heroes others work for to buying epic items to buying epic mounts and so on.

[pateuvasiliu]

No, I'm just going by the commonly-accepted definition of "Pay-to-Win" which rarely includes things like MOBA characters, and almost never includes things which have alternate in-game methods of acquisition. (The latter of which is a huge part of the P2W definition)

So if WoW sold PvP gear for money you think that wouldn't be pay to win? Get a grip.

[Flurryfang]

.... This is SOOOO personal-opnion based, that this pole will show you nothing. These MOBAs are so far away from each other, that they might aswell be in different genres. Its like asking what is the best FPS ever made, which would include everything from doom to CoD Black ops. Its a so varied genre, that its too impossible to set them up between each other.

Atm, MOBAs like Smite, HotS and DOTA2 are games, which are very different. They have different means of getting your objective and even different point of views. So yeah.... This is a question, you can't answer nor argument yourself into a conclusion.

[Fencers]

No it wouldn't. No game makes you win if you pay more. That's just taking the definition to the literal sense of paying to win.

There is no formal definition of such. 'Pay-to-win' is hyphened because each word forms a compound adjective when written as such. Also known as, look-up-each-word.

So 'pay-to-win' literally, as written, is telling the reader they must pay, to, win. When used in the context of video games where the game goals are satisfied as a win; for the latter to be true one must pay; ergo, pay to win or pay-to-win.

Use of 'pay-to-win' is nonsensical otherwise.

Pay to win means real money giving you ingame advantages.

That's so broad as to be meaningless. One should not form any kind of argument on such grounds.

[danbitman]

there is no formal definition of such

Sure there is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play

''In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay.''

And that's precisely what MOBAs and MMOs do, they sell ingame advantages for IRL cash.

That's so broad as to be meaningless.

No, it's not. The degree simply varies.

Archeage has pay to win elements. HOTS has pay to win elements. Korean MMOs where you can buy epic gear with $$ has pay to win elements. Some simply have more than others.

[Fencers]

Sure there is.

That is neither a definition or formal.

No, it's not. The degree simply varies.

That's your opinion- which is incorrect. Specificity would be necessary to quantify any assertion here.

[RuneDK]

I really hate the genre due to the community in them, god forbid you're new to the game.

However I think HoTS is the best of them all simply because i only have to worry about the gameplay. Not how i gear etc etc. I'd put league just behind hots though, i played dota 2 for a couple days and stopped because the community on dota is absurdly toxic.

[Sam the Wiser]

Heroes of the Storm winning... MMO-C confirmed for casual. That game can hardly even be considered a MOBA.

[Teaon]

i used to be dota 1 hardcore player, but have to say, the numbers talk you know.

the world most played game in the world and moba is league of legends, where its e-sport is just getting super huge, and its fanbase is so huge that its having WoW hype from the 2000's


yeah, LoL is the best moba out there

[Deleted]

lol HotS is easily the worst MOBA right now on this list but I don't mean worst game. No depth to it, all the elements that make it a MOBA stripped out so it can hardly even fit into that category, its more like a hero brawler like Bloodline Champions.

There is no best but each one does something well:
- DOTA 1 and 2 are easily the most complex and deep, probably the fastest paced once the mid-game starts when heroes get blink daggers and sustain
- LoL is accessible but still has a decent amount of complexity
- Smite has a unique perspective
- HoN is just a reskinned DOTA
- HotS isn't even a MOBA

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i used to be dota 1 hardcore player, but have to say, the numbers talk you know.

the world most played game in the world and moba is league of legends, where its e-sport is just getting super huge, and its fanbase is so huge that its having WoW hype from the 2000's


yeah, LoL is the best moba out there

Call of Duty is one of the most played games in the world but I wouldn't say its the best. McDonalds is the most popular restaurant in the world but its not the highest quality. Quantity doesn't mean quality. There are far more factors that play into whether or not something is popular. LoL esports got popular because SC2 esports got popular before it during 2010-2012, just as an example.

[kail]

i used to be dota 1 hardcore player, but have to say, the numbers talk you know.

the world most played game in the world and moba is league of legends, where its e-sport is just getting super huge, and its fanbase is so huge that its having WoW hype from the 2000's


yeah, LoL is the best moba out there

Popular does not mean it's the best. Some games are simply marketed more and end up selling higher units. I wouldn't consider that a factor for how enjoyable the game is. Popularity does have it's perks; better ques, larger community = more creations via youtube and such, and developer's income be spent further on the game.

If there is one thing I give Riot credit for, it's their effort to keeping LoL "relevant". New vids, music, etc. I personally enjoy their wacky game modes. Most of this would not be possible if Riot didn't have their current level of income.

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- HotS isn't even a MOBA

It's in every way a moba, just stripped of many elements existing in other games.

[Simulacrum]

It's in every way a moba, just stripped of many elements existing in other games.

Probably should've thought about that sentence more. Calling it "in every way a moba" before immediately contraditing that statement isn't very good form.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

I always preferred DotA over LoL, and while HoN was just a copy of DotA, it was a copy with better graphics, MUCH smoother gameplay and faster pacing .

I still to this day cannot fathom why HoN didn't become the giant it was supposed to be. Remember, HoN was launched at the same time as LoL, and the only argument I remember from people who started with LoL instead was that "It's free, while HoN costs money". Yes that's right, HoN did use the older model of "purchase once, then you have everything", as opposed to the now popular "F2P with microtransactions that also affect gameplay". Looking back, those same people have probably used multiple times more on cosmetic effects in LoL, than they would have done buying HoN back then...

Then DotA2 comes along, a game that's pretty much just a vastly inferior version of HoN, and it becomes the new big hit just because of the name and fame of the original DotA (and yes, I did love the original WC3 DotA, but it's time had passed).

HoN is pretty much dead today, but it still remains the MOBA that "feels" best to play. Every ability, every movement happens instantly. While playing DotA, you always notice the slight delay between keyboard/mouse input, and in-game output (and no, this is not my connection, it's just how the game was coded), while when playing HoN, the entire game feels like an extension of your mind.

[Deleted]

Never played HoN but when you say smoother gameplay, what does that mean? Responsiveness? Because dota is specifically designed to have varying responsiveness according to which hero you picked. Vague statements like that don't really mean much.

A drow ranger feels less responsive than a windranger but drow is balanced around that by having much higher agi and overall scaling. A SS or CM feels unresponsive compared to a bane or dazzle but they have other tools that make them situationally better (SS CC and CMs early burst damage).

LoL and HotS don't have this added complexity since every hero has instant turning animations and attack animations. A complaint I here from LoL players is that DOTA feels sluggish to play but its designed around that idea, some heroes feel more accurate and responsive while others are not but they are balanced in others areas. Some have quick turning animations while others have quick attack animations or other skills that make them strong. Pugna for example has awful turning and attack animations but has very high movement speed and burst damage to make up for that.

[kail]

Probably should've thought about that sentence more. Calling it "in every way a moba" before immediately contraditing that statement isn't very good form.

It's not a contradiction, HotS is obviously different from the other MOBAs. That doesn't make it any less of a MOBA game though.

[Simulacrum]

It's not a contradiction, HotS is obviously different from the other MOBAs. That doesn't make it any less of a MOBA game though.

It can't be in every way a MOBA if it is stripped of many elements. Such as lasthitting. Such as items. Such as gold. This is very simple, basic logic, man.

It may still be a MOBA, but it won't be "in every way" a MOBA. Use different words if you don't understand what they mean.