How legalising prostitution failed in Germany.

[Dys]

I think people who go to prostitutes for sex are pathetic, disgusting, and victims of a social system that disregards the emotional aspect of sex.

But I do think legalization can work with sufficient regulation - that means cracking down on prostitutes that don't have the proper paperwork (showing legality, medical checkups, payment of fees, etc).

Yes, shame on them for doing something completely natural and the only known true purpose to our lives. Shame on them for ignoring the normal brain responses that only serve to facilitate the sex they were seeking in the first place. SHAME SHAME SHAME.

[Primalthirst]

I'm not intimately familiar with how prostitution works in Australia, but I do know it's legal and very tightly regulated. As far as I know we don't have any of the rampant issues mentioned by the OP. So it can work, although I suspect our less porous borders play a part.

[Deleted]

Wildtree will come soon to tell us how prostitution worked just fine in Germany, but it was Eastern Europeans who ruined it.

Hello, my name is wildtree, and I shall tell you that legalization oif prostitution was fine in germany, until east european states got involved.

On a side note, everyone knows how cybran rolls by now, so don't give him any attention.

[Ahovv]

All this talk about legalizing prostitution for taxes...

The government shouldn't give a shit in general what two consenting adults do to each other. The fact it was ever illegal makes little sense. In the USA the only reason people offer for keeping it illegal is "The Bible!"

[Zantos]

But that's the main reason people were arguing for legalised prostitution, that is, to end sex trafficking and rape.

They were naive to think it would end it in the first place. Of course legalizing prostitution won't end it. Heck, I'd be surprised if it even hindered it. The only way to end it is for the law enforcement to be able to strike fast and hard to shut down these rings.

[Milchshake]

Legal prostitution just doesnt work great when you have open borders with countries that have basically institutionalized crime. Gives too much cover for sex trafficking.

[Rhaide]

Yes, shame on them for doing something completely natural and the only known true purpose to our lives. Shame on them for ignoring the normal brain responses that only serve to facilitate the sex they were seeking in the first place. SHAME SHAME SHAME.

Not everyone is a sex crazed maniac. Just the loudest alphas, uncontrolled gluttons, and the 'empowered' manipulators.

Sex is wonderful and I wouldn't tell anyone not to enjoy it, but if you legitimately think there is no emotion attached to it, something is wrong with your brain.

If you want to talk about 'natural', then explain the evolution of emotional connection to a non-familial loved one? Sex is an action taken with the person someone deems 'right'. In the past that meant: strong and able to provide (in men), and healthy and fertile (in women) in order to produce offspring with the best chance of survival. The core is still the same today. Women overwhelmingly flock to men who seem safe and can take care of them, even if they don't need to be taken care of. Men flock to women who are attractive, which is a subconscious indicator of good health.

Despite having clear reasoning for this choice, emotion somehow still got attached to the act. It can be argued (until one is blue in the face) that these affections are a learned behavior, attributable to any one of the various religious organizations who sought to establish some control over how a person lived their lives, but this emotional attachment has ALWAYS been there to a greater or lesser extent. It was/is even apparent in the behavior of apes, not the most religious of folk.

If you think these attractors are unrelated to our evolution, you're flat out wrong. So stop shouting at everyone who doesn't like something they personally hold sacred trivialized and understand that you're allowed to disagree without mocking someone.

That being said, I don't completely agree with the person you forced to be your opponent either. The people he is discussing aren't sick perverts, they are pitiable. Someone who is so blind to the emotional implications of sex, or so sad and self-loathing as to think they can only get it with money are worthy of pity, not disdain.

[Ealyssa]

So in fact the problem isn't prostitution but human explotation ? Which is still illegal

[JohnBrown1917]

Strange how it is working just fine in the Netherlands.




Or maybe its just another bullshit post by shinra.

[tankbug]

I think people who go to prostitutes for sex are pathetic, disgusting, and victims of a social system that disregards the emotional aspect of sex.

But I do think legalization can work with sufficient regulation - that means cracking down on prostitutes that don't have the proper paperwork (showing legality, medical checkups, payment of fees, etc).

I think many of them, for various reasons, are unable to get sex from women without buying it, and I think that we shouldn't try to stop these guys from doing that as long as the women performing the service at her own will. The tax should go towards better regulation and safety for women.

[Puri]

The legalization of prostitution had two different outcomes. The condition for german prostitutes who decided to register as such and normally pay taxes and legally get state benefits did vastly improve. This is especially true for parts of cities that are well know for prostitution, like Hamburg's Reeperbahn or Munich's Ingolstaedter Str.

But on the other hand the cost of visiting a legal etablissement has increased, and thus the demand for cheap prostitution has increased.
And this demand is supplied in form of eastern european women, who are forced into prostitution by organizied crime. This is a booming business, that did indeed skyrocket in the last decade - but without a concession it still is illegal (simply because they do not pay taxes). But yes, frankly put the prosecution efforts for crimes like that is rather minimal - there is a saying in Germany "Wo kein Kläger da kein Richter" (No plaintiff, no judge), and the public interest in prosecution of those cases is rather low.

It's a side effect of the legalization. It's like saying: By making a drug legal you increase the robbery rate of stores that sell those drugs. While that's undeniably true, it does not mean that legalizing the drug in the first place was a wrong decision.

[Deleted]

See the problem is you're still arguing from a consequentialist point of view rather than a principled point of view.

You can bring up all these correlations (which 1: you haven't cited, 2: correlation doesn't equal causation) or say that human trafficking is a problem or whatever and ignore the fact that government fucked it up in the first place (you seriously expect things to magically get better after a few years when you're bordered by countries that still have it illegal?)

Bottom line is government shouldn't be involved in what 2 adults do in the bedroom. We don't live in North Korea or communist Russia or Saudi Arabia, so stop trying to push totalitarian values on the people.

If there is evidence of violence, kidnapping, rape by all means prosecute it. Otherwise cut that shit out and let things be.

There is another issue as well, excessive taxation and regulation pretty much guarantees the underground industry will continue. Once again government is the problem not the solution. Given how much it has failed literally the only honorable thing would be to decriminalize it and don't get involved in it for the next 999 years (except for coercion). It shouldn't even be taxed frankly, consider it reparations for hundreds of years of bullshit failed government intervention.

Even if someone is entering the industry now and was never persecuted by the government, she still shouldn't pay a dime in taxes simply because of what a hostile environment the government has created so far.

[Deleted]

The problem is not that prostitution is legal. The problem is that Eastern Europeans can easily enter Germany. Work legally and undercut German Workers or just work illegally and when they get caught the worst they get is a fine, a slap on the wrist and go right back to it.

Letting Eastern Europeans into Germany has increased crime. Poland was known as the Car Theft Capital. Polish Gangs used to enter Germany steal cars and scrap them in Poland. Romanian smugglers often bring underage Girls into Germany and traffic them.

The problem is not legal Prostitution. The problem is Schengen that allows Organised crime into Germany from Eastern Europe.

[Deleted]

The problem is not that prostitution is legal. The problem is that Eastern Europeans can easily enter Germany. Work legally and undercut German Workers or just work illegally and when they get caught the worst they get is a fine, a slap on the wrist and go right back to it.

Letting Eastern Europeans into Germany has increased crime. Poland was known as the Car Theft Capital. Polish Gangs used to enter Germany steal cars and scrap them in Poland. Romanian smugglers often bring underage Girls into Germany and traffic them.

The problem is not legal Prostitution. The problem is Schengen that allows Organised crime into Germany from Eastern Europe.

The EU itself is a massive failure anyway.

It wouldn't be as big of a problem if it was based on individualism rather than collectivism.

[Beazy]

But that's the main reason people were arguing for legalised prostitution, that is, to end sex trafficking and rape.

LoL who told you that stupid shit?

That was never even in the top ten list of reasons to legalize it. . . nor would any educated human believe that to be a possible outcome.

[Deleted]

I think people who go to prostitutes for sex are pathetic, disgusting, and victims of a social system that disregards the emotional aspect of sex.

I think this is the real reason for such comments.

They view sex workers, as competition. Sex workers (usually) don’t need to be wined or dined or taken out on dates. They don’t need to be promised monogamy, marriage, or girlfriend status. They don’t need to be given gifts or favours. ”
Married women are particularly terrified of prostitution.

Also bar donkeys won't be able to brag as much about how many women they've pulled.

[Deleted]

Well, human trafficking will happen whether it is illegal or not, it will remain profitable even if it is legalized or not.

Demand will always remain.

I don't know what to tell you, but I imagine since there is so many at one place that the customers would be really happy. If I ever go to germany I would like to hire somebody maybe

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Cheeki breeki

I would love to hire a escort to go hunt artifacts in chernobyl and then have gasmask sex in a safe area

Human trafficking will not only happen in most cases when prostitution is legalized. Trafficking will actually grow exponentially.
Examples are to be found in Netherlands and Germany compared to others.

[kaid]

But that's the main reason people were arguing for legalised prostitution, that is, to end sex trafficking and rape.

Its not so much that it ends sex trafficking but in theory it allows you to focus on the bad actors more and then is also not at the same time treating the victims of abuse as criminals. It was just recently in the US that the justice system is starting to realize if you if your laws says if you are under 18 you cannot consent to sex than if you pick somebody up for prostitution who is under 18 they by definition cannot be prostitutes but are victims of statutory rape at best.

There are a lot of demons that lurk in the human mind and heart but pushing things like this into the shadows generally will wind up with worse outcomes long run than bring it out into the sun light where you can at least take some steps into managing/controlling it.

[Deleted]

Hello, my name is wildtree, and I shall tell you that legalization oif prostitution was fine in germany, until east european states got involved.

On a side note, everyone knows how cybran rolls by now, so don't give him any attention.

Prostitution was also fine in Italy in the '60s. Then the world changed. We have to deal with it. It wont be back the way it was.

[Levelfive]

Human trafficking will not only happen in most cases when prostitution is legalized. Trafficking will actually grow exponentially.
Examples are to be found in Netherlands and Germany compared to others.

Except that is simply not borne out by facts:

"But there is no substantiation for the argument that a greater influx of Bulgarian and Romanian sex workers in Germany means that inner-European human trafficking is flourishing on account of the Prostitution Act. Equating the activity of prostitution with human trafficking would also mean declaring these women to be victims of human trafficking. Estimates of how many women and men in Germany are affected by human trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation differ widely and are not based on sound statistics. The only reliable figures are published annually by the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) in its status report on human trafficking (Bundeslagebild Menschenhandel). Contrary to the claim that the Prostitution Act promotes human trafficking, it shows no increase in the number of victims but rather a slight decline over recent years. However, the status report only shows the statistics known to the police, i.e. those based on completed investigations. If we consider the difficulty of identifying and establishing access to trafficked persons (Herz/Minthe 2006), it quickly becomes clear that the BKA statistics cannot realistically reflect the actual situation. This is also the position of the federal government, which holds that a high number of unreported cases must be assumed (see Bundesrat Printed Paper 17/12504). But there are not any studies seeking to assess the extent of unreported cases that would allow reliable estimates. The position of the federal government is also supported by the experience of the counseling centers, which repeatedly report the difficulties of gaining access to trafficked persons, and which note that not all clients file charges and therefore that even these cases are not reflected in the status report from the BKA. A recent study (Cho/Dreher/Neumeyer 2012) caused a sensation by creating a link between the liberalization of prostitution rights and higher levels of human trafficking. Although the authors themselves concede the poor quality of their data and resort to selective estimates, they nevertheless draw conclusions that they incorrectly present as causal connections. Among other things they refer to data from a UNODC report (2006) but ignore an important distinction: UNODC lists only the number of reports on human trafficking, whereas Cho et al present these figures as the actual number of cases of human trafficking (see Henning/Walentowitz 2012). The authors also do not define the concept of human trafficking, nor do they specify what is meant by “legalization” of prostitution – which in Germany was already legal before the Prostitution Act. The question of whether or to what extent the Prostitution Act encourages controlling (pimping) and human trafficking has generated controversy. Advocates of abolitionism use claims that have not been substantiated about the Prostitution Act in this context, in order to prohibit voluntary prostitution on the one hand and to make the purchase of sexual services a criminal offense on the other. By eliminating the provision that makes it illegal to promote (voluntary) prostitution, the Prostitution Act lays the foundation for improving the working conditions of sex workers and facilitating their access to support structures. Differentiating between prostitution on the one hand and human trafficking on the other does not make it harder for trafficked persons to find assistance. Experience on the ground at most counseling centers, which work together directly with trafficked persons as well as with the police and the justice system, does not confirm any link between the Prostitution Act and an increase in human trafficking (see KOK 2008)."

http://www.spi-research.eu/wp-conten...anyEN_main.pdf

It's like arguing (without evidence) that illegal drug use increases where alcohol is legal, so therefore the way to address krokadil use is to criminalize drinking. It's absurd.