Thunderfury Skin Goes to Outlaw Rogues?

[Toppy]

I would not be too sure blizz are putting the right artifacts under the right name. Have seen several that seem off place. One example is the arms axe that was posted here, it definetly looks alot like a reskin for blood dk mace..

It was datamined as being called an arms weapon skin. Also, the marksman bow, one of its skins is a crossbow. Blizz is fine with changing the weapon type.

This was datamined as the 6th blood DK skin

[stariv]

It was datamined as being called an arms weapon skin. Also, the marksman bow, one of its skins is a crossbow. Blizz is fine with changing the weapon type.

This was datamined as the 6th blood DK skin

I'm putting my money on that being frost DK, an axe variant of the 1h weapons. I think it's too short to be 2H

[SDMF]

I'm putting my money on that being frost DK, an axe variant of the 1h weapons. I think it's too short to be 2H

What if....blood will be able to dual wield?



Think 500 x2 strikes instead of 1000 x1.

[KrotosTheTank]

Way too much hyperbole in this topic. TF was not, explicitly, a warrior weapon. Giving a version of it to rogues is definitely a head-scratcher, I've no arguments with that, but there's some serious warrior-entitlement going on here... and I main as a warrior.

You quoted me, left out the part where I agreed with you that a TF look-a-like is better to go to no one (or everyone i suppose), and then go on to say what I said.

The point of the portion you quoted, however, has much more to do with our "unique" or "iconic" abilities that have been appropriated by nearly every class in the name of balance, but THEN go on to say that a hunter's harpoon cannot work like a real harpoon cuz, well, iconic DK must stay DK.

[Deleted]

hmmm rogues will be running with big, beautiful swords on their back and best looking arms artifact is small, short axe .... if "new" reaper is our artifact

[Mirishka]

You quoted me, left out the part where I agreed with you that a TF look-a-like is better to go to no one (or everyone i suppose), and then go on to say what I said.

The point of the portion you quoted, however, has much more to do with our "unique" or "iconic" abilities that have been appropriated by nearly every class in the name of balance, but THEN go on to say that a hunter's harpoon cannot work like a real harpoon cuz, well, iconic DK must stay DK.

If we're going to have a conversation about how a real harpoon would work, it would generally kill the target regardless of whether or not you can 'yank' it to you. Harpoons were (and probably still are) used to kill whales, after all.

As far as Homogenization goes, it was inevitable because niches suck. I didn't like being the 'magic' tank as a DK in Wrath, nor did I like subpar AOE threat as a warrior tank because someone at Blizzard decided 'that's the pally's role!' and limited Thunder Clap to 4 targets. A tank should be able to tank, period. A healer should be able to heal, period. There's still plenty of room for flavor while making sure everyone can do a good job of their role. Pallies use holy power and 'the Light' to tank, warriors use smashing blows with their shield/weapon and slamming the ground with Thunderclap/Shockwave etc. Different methods, but ultimately the same result: shit beats on them instead of everyone else. As long as it doesn't get as lame as paladins having 'Holy Clap!' bears having 'Grizzly Clap!' and monks having 'Chi Chi Clap!' I can deal with it.

[KrotosTheTank]

As far as Homogenization goes, it was inevitable because niches suck. I didn't like being the 'magic' tank as a DK in Wrath, nor did I like subpar AOE threat as a warrior tank because someone at Blizzard decided 'that's the pally's role!' and limited Thunder Clap to 4 targets. A tank should be able to tank, period. A healer should be able to heal, period. There's still plenty of room for flavor while making sure everyone can do a good job of their role. Pallies use holy power and 'the Light' to tank, warriors use smashing blows with their shield/weapon and slamming the ground with Thunderclap/Shockwave etc. Different methods, but ultimately the same result: shit beats on them instead of everyone else. As long as it doesn't get as lame as paladins having 'Holy Clap!' bears having 'Grizzly Clap!' and monks having 'Chi Chi Clap!' I can deal with it.

I think that there's a better argument for homogenization for tanks than anything else due to the low numbers per raid, though doesn't mean I have to like it. The removal of buffs is the last of it really. Now there's nearly nothing to make you feel more powerful in a group. It's an MMO afterall. I like feeling more powerful with others, but I suppose I digress.

I'll repeat what I've said elsewhere: I do not have to be the best tank class, I'd much rather be a middling tank that is fun to play rather than an OP tank that only spams one button that taunts, grips, stuns, AoEs, counts as AM, etc. The problem here for me is that Prot Warr is not only shaping up to be towards the low end of performance, but also losing, and has lost, much of its flavor and what makes it fun.

That has primarily to do with Protection, but the point is the same. We're losing flavor and efficacy. Losing either isn't great, but both is terrible. The sky isn't falling, the tuning isn't nearly complete, but going on to say that all is well won't do shit to fix this direction issue.

[shyguybman]

This.
If i remember correctly, it was given to tanks only after people found out how much thread was generated by the proc. But until then it was primarily weapon for a dps.
Plus it's just a thunderfury-based skin, not the real sword / look, so take a deep breath

I agree that it was intended to be a dps weapon 100% and then ended up turning into a tank weapon due to people finding out how much threat it generated. I'm just salty because IMO it's STILL the best looking weapon in the game even though it was made over 11 years ago and it's going to rogues meanwhile we have literally a POS tank sword. It's obviously just a TF-esque skin but regardless it looks awesome

[Cosmophile]

Worse things have happened, Thunderfury is about as much a Warrior weapon as Shadowmourne is a Warrior weapon - just because we were either one of the first weilders or the most common users doesn't take away the fact the weapon was good/bis for other classes and specs.

Finding myself agreeing with Archi again, the *shield* is the Protection Warrior artifact, not the sword. Giving Thunderfury as a skin for the sword takes away the focus of the shield and diminishes it's awesomeness.

Was Thunderfury good for rogues? Absolutely. But it was and is the prot warrior sword. It doesn't matter if Blizzard intended for it to be a primarily rogue (or hunter!) weapon when they created it. The community created the legacy for Thunderfury. It's also worth pointing out that, while it was good for rogues, the weapon was insanely good for tanks. Kungen can be seen using Thunderfury throughout world first kill videos in BC.

Also, regarding the shield being our artifact:

Sure, but why should that mean our sword should look like crap? Paladins' shields look much better than ours, and their swords look great. We have two good swords (yes, this is my opinion, but it seems to be shared among most warriors). One is entirely modeled after our Tier 1 set, while the other is entirely modeled after our Tier 13 set. The rest look like leveling shields.

[sickleblade]

I am usually very patient and willing to let things play out, but I really do feel gut-punched seeing a thunderfury skin and it not at the very least going to a tank class, much less warriors who were THE tanks of the vanilla era, not to mention our artifact weapon models are laaame.

[Eon Drache]

Was Thunderfury good for rogues? Absolutely. But it was and is the prot warrior sword. It doesn't matter if Blizzard intended for it to be a primarily rogue (or hunter!) weapon when they created it. The community created the legacy for Thunderfury. It's also worth pointing out that, while it was good for rogues, the weapon was insanely good for tanks. Kungen can be seen using Thunderfury throughout world first kill videos in BC.

Also, regarding the shield being our artifact:

Sure, but why should that mean our sword should look like crap? Paladins' shields look much better than ours, and their swords look great. We have two good swords (yes, this is my opinion, but it seems to be shared among most warriors). One is entirely modeled after our Tier 1 set, while the other is entirely modeled after our Tier 13 set. The rest look like leveling shields.

I distinctively remember during Wrath and Cata tanks bitching there had never been a tank legendary and they wanted one. If they hadn't claimed Thunderfury as a "Tank" legendary at that point then why would they be able to claim Thunderfury now?

[ComputerNerd]

Epic axe artifact? Nope Spinal/Arcanite Reaper from Vanilla with minor changes.

Any weapon or item or armor can be determined to be resembling another if you want to look hard enough.
If you want to see that similarity, you will find it.

A pattern will always be found by someone who wants it to be there.
Just like sub numbers, which are always blamed on single changes never in isolation, but still made out to be "proof".

[Thage]

Any weapon or item or armor can be determined to be resembling another if you want to look hard enough.
If you want to see that similarity, you will find it.

To be fair, the new Arms axe skin does take notable design cues from the Arcanite Reaper, including the iconic six spikes near the blade and the skull set into the blade itself. In much the same way the Thunderfury skin takes design cues from, well, Thunderfury.

[Deleted]

Just to explain a few things:

Back in Vanilla AoE threat was extremely hard to do. Reason was that during that time Prot Warriors relied on spaming singletarget abilities to generate threat.
The only AoE warriors had was thunderclap which did very low threat and cleave which was an "on next auto attack" move.

Thunderfury had a proc that was basically an aoe effect with insanely amount of threat. Aditionally to that it applied a debuff that slowed the attackspeed of bossmobs which directly reduced the damage of the boss and thus increasing the survivability of the tank. This was the reason it became the best tanking weapon in the game for that time.
It bypassed a major issue that aoe threat was so difficult to generate during that time and it had one of the best debuffs a tank could apply to mobs.


So saying it was intended as a dps weapon is not true. Especially when you consider that the attackspeed of 1.9 secs was way too fast for a rogue to use it effectively. Rogues wanted to use a very slow weapon to make use of their spamable instant attack. While tanks wanted the fastest weapons possible to generate rage faster.

So rogues who were lucky enough to get a Thunderfury in their raids had to use it as an offhand weapon in order to make use of it.


So after this small history lesson I can totally see why this sword is the most iconic tanking weapons warrior have ever wielded and it was only a side note for rogues.
This sword has allways belonged in the hands of a warrior tank.

[Toppy]

You're all also missing the very basic point in that outlaw rogue getting it means they'll have two thunderfury somehow.

The thing only makes sense on a class that doesnt duel wield.

[Deleted]

You're all also missing the very basic point in that outlaw rogue getting it means they'll have two thunderfury somehow.

The thing only makes sense on a class that doesnt duel wield.

Unfortunately the only word that doesn't come to my mind when I think of Blizzard and gamedesign is: Logic and Reasoning.
Blizzard has a history of making the most unreasonable decisions even though the most logic solution was lying before them. So I wouldn't even be surprised if they give rogues dual wield TF.

It is just so far off from being logical or reasonable that it would perfectly suite into their scheme.

[solarfallz]

Thunderfury was a damn waste on Warriors anyway. They didn't even get to use it for PVP. My soul still dies just a little bit whenever I think about TF going to tanks.

[Sammonoske]

Just to explain a few things:

Back in Vanilla AoE threat was extremely hard to do. Reason was that during that time Prot Warriors relied on spaming singletarget abilities to generate threat.
The only AoE warriors had was thunderclap which did very low threat and cleave which was an "on next auto attack" move.

Thunderfury had a proc that was basically an aoe effect with insanely amount of threat. Aditionally to that it applied a debuff that slowed the attackspeed of bossmobs which directly reduced the damage of the boss and thus increasing the survivability of the tank. This was the reason it became the best tanking weapon in the game for that time.
It bypassed a major issue that aoe threat was so difficult to generate during that time and it had one of the best debuffs a tank could apply to mobs.


So saying it was intended as a dps weapon is not true. Especially when you consider that the attackspeed of 1.9 secs was way too fast for a rogue to use it effectively. Rogues wanted to use a very slow weapon to make use of their spamable instant attack. While tanks wanted the fastest weapons possible to generate rage faster.

So rogues who were lucky enough to get a Thunderfury in their raids had to use it as an offhand weapon in order to make use of it.


So after this small history lesson I can totally see why this sword is the most iconic tanking weapons warrior have ever wielded and it was only a side note for rogues.
This sword has allways belonged in the hands of a warrior tank.

This guy gets it.
If you gave TF to a Rogue that wasn't worth his salt, your guild just wasted a TF that could have gone to your tank.

Anyways, I've had to accept that this weapon would go to Rogues because Blizzard said they would only focus on the primary Artifact, the shield for Prot Warriors case. It's expected that Prot is stuck with a vendor grey sword.

[Manabomb]

Epic axe artifact? Nope Spinal/Arcanite Reaper from Vanilla with minor changes.

Which is about as epic as a reskinned thunderfury, get over yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

This guy gets it.
If you gave TF to a Rogue that wasn't worth his salt, your guild just wasted a TF that could have gone to your tank.

Anyways, I've had to accept that this weapon would go to Rogues because Blizzard said they would only focus on the primary Artifact, the shield for Prot Warriors case. It's expected that Prot is stuck with a vendor grey sword.

If you were giving a warrior tank a weapon that should be going to your highest melee dps, you're doing it wrong.

A TF in the hands of an auto attacking rogue is better than in the hands of the worlds best prot warrior. Tanks did fuck all for damage in vanilla, their only minor issue was AoE threat which is pretty much excluded to trash. The extra dps on the rogue having the weapon was/is far more valuable than a tank getting an extra thunderclap every few melee swings. (Not that it mattered, you CC'd everything in vaniller anyway. You know, because hardcore and vanilla is super tough, ect ect ect.)

[willtron]

You're all also missing the very basic point in that outlaw rogue getting it means they'll have two thunderfury somehow.

The thing only makes sense on a class that doesnt duel wield.

One major flaw in your arguement - that weapon isn't TF. It's an artifact skin that's similar to it.