Legion Arms: Something I would change

[Semiprogamer]

As the title states, there something about Arms I want to change. Atm Legions version looks fun but seems to not quite hit its potential.
My biggest issue atm with Arms is the cleave damage. I don't want another WoD version, just spamming whirlwind. Whats also bugging me is the passive that makes whirlwind reset the CD on CS. I don't see a point in using CS with just WW. Here's a few tweeks I had in mind about this issue and another I haven't mentioned.

1. The new cleave buff in Legion should make Mortal Strike do AoE damage in either a cone or maybe all around like whirlwind. Makes CS important for AoE plus another button to press.
2. The only other thing that might have been dealt with already by talents is when you use CS. All you have is MS and Slam to use (I don't count execute because you don't even get to use that til end of fights). This would be a perfect time for something like Overpower's model back in Mop to come back or just something else to use, something made for CS.
3. Though minor I preferred when MS actually gave you rage but its just a meh thought. At least during downtime you can throw one of those in to get rage and help spam Slam more while also using another button but Slam.
4. And lastly the actually CD on CS. I've seen the videos where CS comes back everytime you use Slam and times where you don't get it back til after 20 seconds of spamming that ability. It would be nicer if it was brought down to 20-25 sec CD so you get the feeling that its important CD and are happy when Slam gets it back but aren't backlashed if you have bad luck.

If you agree let me know or if you have your own tweeks or just want to see something completely different please leave a comment. Always enjoy discussing class builds.

[Archimtiros]

Something? More like a list of somethings!

To address:

1. Mortal Strike cleaves via SS, it fills the ST & Cleave niches, not the AoE one (more on this below).
1a. CS actually can be important for Multitarget/AoE via Corrupted Rage or tab targeting with Titanic Might.

2. Overpower already fits in if talented, it doesn't need the MoP model (and in fact that would only serve to get in the way of the rest of the rotation). With frequent CS resets, it's really not so bad, though there can be droughts.

3. I agree that MS would be nice as a generator again, though it doesn't really address "downtime" as it's used pretty much on cooldown in the rotation regardless. All it would really do is offer more control vs averaging AA crits.

4. This has been talked about a lot. CS could have it's base duration reduced but that would come at a cost of a) reducing the strength of CS (period, not rolling its damage into other abilities), or b) reducing the chance to proc a reset. In the end % based chance is random, but it averages, so yes sometimes you'll reset every other attack, other times you won't reset for 10 hits, but it does average out to 20% over time. Sample size and all that.

Regarding AoE, Arms is a lot more than just spam WW. There are actually a few variations of the rotation, which is really nice.
Single target: obviously you would not use Whirlwind (excepting specific cases such as under War Veteran, but we expect those to be tuned out).

2-3 targets: you will use Whirlwind sparingly, but the bulk of the rotation will still consist of CS and Mortal Strike. Whirlwind resetting CS is actually amazingly useful here as it has a separate chance to reset for each enemy hit. With Titanic Might, you can easily keep CS up on 2-3 targets under the right circumstances. There's also the (debatable) ability to multi-target Rend.

3+ targets: you'll spend the bulk of your time using Cleave and Whirlwind, though CS or Rend can still potentially be used depending on the actual number of targets. Yes, against the upper limit of targets, you'll pretty much be regulated to just spamming Whirlwind, but that doesn't happen very often, or for very long in actual content. Also remember that Bladestorm is amazing for Arms, so that will fill the role of high target count burst AoE before Whirlwind will.

TLDR: You won't be regulated to spamming Whirlwind very often when you consider all of the other tools at our disposal.

[Ryuku]

Honestly i don't think Arms really needs much changing. Personally for me its more about dead talents than the actual base skill set

1. Really wish they would do something with Heroic Strike. It really doesn't fit in Arms arsenal. Its cost should be reduced to 10 rage
2. Overpower costing no rage would be awesome... making it more attractive
3. Avatar is weird at 1.5 minutes... i would ask for the spell to give rage but battle cry already does that... anyways make it 1 minute and replace Battle Cry. When i say replace i mean it just makes Battle Cry remove roots or snares and extends out the duration to 8 seconds when activated on top of what battle cry already does.
4. Fervour of Battle... really feels stale at this point... I prefer Advanced Cleave... Buffing Cleave and giving it a Slam Treatment like live. Stacks 3 times... each time doing more damage and increasing its cost. Whirlwind can be used to eat the buff.

Besides that Arms seems really good... fury on the other hand I have no idea... so many things... to address. AoE, Execute...

[Secondwind]

1. Really wish they would do something with Heroic Strike. It really doesn't fit in Arms arsenal. Its cost should be reduced to 10 rage

I'm actually kind of looking forward to seeing how this plays out with the later artifact improvements. Especially the one that makes CS make your next MS deal +50% damage and +50% crit rate. It'll be interesting to see if that ends up making it worthwhile to stack up 3 HSes with each CS window for a massive MS. The result would be a much slower playstyle with almost all of your damage focused into the 1-2 punch of a CS->MS, with relatively little rage left over for other things (and less frequent CS windows). But if they somehow get the numbers balanced on it? I'd be interested in at least trying it. It seems relatively unique, and would really ooze the slow buildup to a super heavy hit that they've talked about for years now. For now I'm inclined to wait and see how it comes out.

2. Overpower costing no rage would be awesome... making it more attractive

I think making OP cost no rage and also being able to store multiple charges (3-5) would be pretty great, and end up giving a similar overall play style to late-MOP arms, without needing to make any major changes. The base damage of OP may need to be nerfed to balance that extra control out, but as long as it ended up as a competitive talent, that's fine by me.

3. Avatar is weird at 1.5 minutes... i would ask for the spell to give rage but battle cry already does that... anyways make it 1 minute and replace Battle Cry. When i say replace i mean it just makes Battle Cry remove roots or snares and extends out the duration to 8 seconds when activated on top of what battle cry already does.

I like this suggestion. It's simple and pretty effective. My main concern would be 3 extra seconds of battle cry not being worth as much as the other two talents, but that's just a tuning issue.

4. Fervour of Battle... really feels stale at this point... I prefer Advanced Cleave... Buffing Cleave and giving it a Slam Treatment like live. Stacks 3 times... each time doing more damage and increasing its cost. Whirlwind can be used to eat the buff.

Well we'd need to get the cooldown on Cleave removed as part of the same talent, but other than that I like the idea. I always loved the idea of the stacking Slam, and thought it was a good base for a mechanic... the problem was always the completely uncontrollable nature of the stacks. Having Whirlwind as a stack consumer instead of having stacks fall off after 1.5s is just what it needs.

[Ryuku]

I think if avatar adding 3 more seconds to recklessness, things could be pretty crazy. Arms already got Bloodbath 2.0 and Inner Rage attached... helping push that extra bit of DPS. But your right... its down to math at the end of the day.

Avatar can't be too crazy cause fury can make it a 30 sec CD... meaning its 8 seconds ever 30 seconds... or thats how I'm seeing it

Totally down with cleave stacking and blowing stacks with WW. I agree the slam talent had a lot of potential and its something I wish carried over to Legion. Plus I love D3 Cleave of lashing back and forth... its bad ass

[Deleted]

I would change heroic strike with "Battering Ram" 30 sec CD that makes your Slam spread Colossus Smash on all targets in like 10 yards. Or something similar to make mastery more usefull for AoE

[Wulfey]

Avatar should just be removed. Try something like this:

Your battle shout (recklessness) now increases your damage by 20% and lasts 1 second longer.

[Archimtiros]

I'd be ok with Avatar modifying Reck instead of adding an additional cooldown, but I don't think that would work very well with Anger Management, so it'd probably have to go on the same tier.

Either way, I'm not sure if additional time is the best option either.

[Wulfey]

I'd be ok with Avatar modifying Reck instead of adding an additional cooldown, but I don't think that would work very well with Anger Management, so it'd probably have to go on the same tier.

Either way, I'm not sure if additional time is the best option either.

I hate having multiple cooldowns with multiple different times that vary and never sync up. Makes me always feel like I am playing wrong.

Even if avatar was better, I would never spec it just for the annoyance factor (unless I Had some kind of amazing 1 min 30 second on use trinket).

[Ryuku]

I'd be ok with Avatar modifying Reck instead of adding an additional cooldown, but I don't think that would work very well with Anger Management, so it'd probably have to go on the same tier.

Either way, I'm not sure if additional time is the best option either.

Anger management is an issue. But hey rend switch with avatar then avatar switch with ravenger. (15 rend, 90 ravenger, 100 avatar) I think that's right. can be replicated with fury. Flurry switch with avatar, avatar switch with dragon roar

Increasing the time of reck seems the easiest option because of artifact power. Could add versatility so it's kind of defensive.:: that would be interesting