[ARCANE] Legion Beta Megathread

[Seneca]

A 10 second duration 90 second cooldown spell is an extremely standard DPS cooldown.

It's 20 second duration 90 second cooldown (if we count the CD of both charges we have to count the duration of both charges too).

Including its cast time (up to 3 sec) it means every 90 sec we spend up to 23 secs dealing with RoP.

Comparing it to Arcane power, which has a 90 sec CD and lasts 10 seconds, RoP is 2.3 times higher.

Legion RoP is not a maintenance ability, but for being a burst CD, its uptime is quite high.

Most burst CDs with a 20 sec duration have 2+ min CDs, have no cast time and do not have any GCD.


I am not trying to prove anything, merely clarifying that RoP uptime is very high, compared to all the other burst CDs in the game. Most burst CDs follow the pattern 10/60, 15/90, 20/120 (duration, CD, respectively). 23/90 is the outlier (let alone the enormous damage increase, so if we fuck it up we are more fucked than usual, let alone the tedious mechanic, so we are more prone to fuck it up to begin with).

[Deleted]

Whatever it is, it's one of the spells that one must see in practice to pass judgement. At a first glance it seems like an improvement over the fiasco of the old one. But that cast time and the frequent usage might make it annoying.

[whisperingsage]

Well, you can use it twice during AP and have both charges up for the next one, or you can use one during the opener and the other after you burn and evocate (if the quickening strategy of popping cooldowns after the evocate is popular). Which, I suppose, is a very tidy effect of its 45 second CD being half that of AP.

Spending time casting a non-damaging spell usually doesn't feel very good, so we'll have to wait for sims to see the best use.

[Imnick]

You're right that I wrote the uptime down wrong, but the uptime is still only 20 seconds and not 23. Time spent casting the spell is not uptime of the buff, you aren't gaining damage during that period (in fact you are losing it).

[Seneca]

You're right that I wrote the uptime down wrong, but the uptime is still only 20 seconds and not 23. Time spent casting the spell is not uptime of the buff, you aren't gaining damage during that period (in fact you are losing it).

Yes, the uptime is only 20.

A minor point that I wanted to bring up is that, differently from the other GCDless burst CDs, we have to "waste" up to 3 sec in order to just have it.

I didn't want to make a big deal, but I think it is important by some PoV.

For example, if a boss goes immune in 10 secs and we want to use RoP, we have to keep in mind that we lose the last 1.5 sec, because we waste the first (up to) 1.5 secs to cast RoP. Another important consideration is that we cannot use it while moving or without wasting IF charges for example (so, to conclude, it's true that the uptime is 20, but we have to dedicate up to 3 additional secs to RoP).

Well, you can use it twice during AP and have both charges up for the next one, or you can use one during the opener and the other after you burn and evocate (if the quickening strategy of popping cooldowns after the evocate is popular). Which, I suppose, is a very tidy effect of its 45 second CD being half that of AP.

Spending time casting a non-damaging spell usually doesn't feel very good, so we'll have to wait for sims to see the best use.

I guess a thing I hate about RoP is the fact that we are supposed to stack it with our baseline steroids (AP, IV, Comb), so, in a way, it and/or them lose importance.

I mean, what's the purpose of having 5 different CDs if we want/can stack them all.

I do rather have a big damage CD rather than 3 medium damage CD that will be stacked in a big damage CD anyway.

If blizzard has this strong desire of pruning everything, they should start to prune things that we are gonna macro or manually stack anyway.

[Northem]

Leaving aside the fact that, despite it has improved greatly, I (and some other people) still don't like the current [Rune of Power] as it constraints our movement freedom (which in fact is precisely its main sign of identity), the problem is:

[Rune of Power] has to be changed so as to it can coexist with a "normal" burst damage CD in the same row (not being [Mirror Image] obviously, but something like my idea) and at the same time, [Rune of Power] has to be equalized with respect to its two row companions, i.e. : [Rune of Power] has to cease to be "the best" option of the row, because otherwise our freedom of choice is utterly destroyed.

[AngelovV]

Leaving aside the fact that, despite it has improved greatly, I (and some other people) still don't like the current [Rune of Power] as it constraints our movement freedom (which in fact is precisely its main sign of identity), the problem is:

[Rune of Power] has to be changed so as to it can coexist with a "normal" burst damage CD in the same row (not being [Mirror Image] obviously, but something like my idea) and at the same time, [Rune of Power] has to be equalized with respect to its two row companions, i.e. : [Rune of Power] has to cease to be "the best" option of the row, because otherwise our freedom of choice is utterly destroyed.

As you have said many times WoW is not all about raiding. RoP is good when you have those 10 second windows where you can burn, if not go IF. And MI is great when doing solo stuff.

[Deleted]

we have to "waste" up to 3 sec in order to just have it.

My 1st thought was that besides any mechanical issues, it might be annoying having to long cast a damage increase and so frequently. However, there is another important factor here. It might be extremely fitting to the Arcane spec to actually do waste time in order to setup a burn because that's what the spec generally does, burns.

But, in Legion that might not be a design goal to begin with because all specs are supposed to be able to do almost everything because we are supposed to be locked to the same spec, to some extend.

[Northem]

As you have said many times WoW is not all about raiding. RoP is good when you have those 10 second windows where you can burn, if not go IF. And MI is great when doing solo stuff.

Well, I personally can allow the existence of [Rune of Power] because simply I can avoid choosing it, so that's not a life or death issue for me (however there are a lot of people who still can not stand it).

The problem arises when we have no real option but to choose [Rune of Power] because is the best talent of the row. Currently, [Rune of Power] is fairly superior to the other two options, so we are forced to choose it if we want to be competitive...

At least [Mirror Image] should be changed in order to create a fair "competition" in that row regarding [Rune of Power] (see [Echoes of the Past], my replacement idea for [Mirror Image]).

For example, we could have that:

[Rune of Power] = 50% of damage burst over 20 sec with a 93 sec CD; Pros: flexibility; Cons: restricts movement

[Past Echoes] = 30% of damage burst over 30 sec with a 120 sec CD; Pros: no restrictions; Cons: can be dispelled

[gunner_recall]

So how's arcane looking?

[Lebanese Dude]

So how's arcane looking?

Good in terms of base mechanics, although some talents are still somewhat dubious.

Visuals still not updated. Guess we'll hold on to the only spell that hasn't received a visual update since vanilla a little longer.

[Northem]

So how's arcane looking?

There are still some issues that need attention...

[Dronk]

They seem to have changed the last step of the nexus scenario? I couldn't loot the staff because I didn't have the 3 items, Meitres something...

Doooh. found out how to do it.

[Deleted]

How do you play Arcane on Legion?

What is your mana management like and rotation?

[Northem]

I was wondering if [Evocation] could be more dynamic, for example not being a CD, but a regular spell to be included in the rotation.... Something this way:

• [Evocation] no longer has a cooldown, is a usual spell
  
  
• Instead of providing mana, now [Evocation] simply increases the mana regen the mage has by a multiplicator percentage while it is being channelled; by default it increases the mana regen only a little
  
  
• Is channelled as always, but now doesn't have a fixed duration: it continues channelling until the mage has 100% mana (or until cancelled)
  
  
• Each X secs, [Evocation] earns a "charge"; all "charges" are consumed when casted; each "charge" increases the "multiplicator percentaje" of mana regen [Evocation] provides when casted; the channelling of [Evocation] is shorter the more "charges" consumed when casted because [Evocation] would reach 100% mana sooner
  
  
• While [Evocation] is being channelled, the mage becomes vulnerable: all damage received is increased

The philosophy would be that: The mage can cast evocation whenever he needs mana, knowing that if he uses [Evocation] too often, he would waste more time channelling and, what is more, he would be more time in danger.

[Deleted]

How do you play Arcane on Legion?

What is your mana management like and rotation?

Dungeons/questing do w/e your mana regens enough between pulls.

On bosses it seems

2xAB+Orb+Mark + Rune + AP into normal burn rotation.
After burn rotation you just go to 4 stacks then Barrage(which does alot more damage now).
It is pretty forgiving and you will have enough mana as long as you dont cast too many 4 stack ABs to be able to do a nice burn once AP and Evo are coming back around. What im unsure about is saving Mark for AP or not. You can get 4(on CD) in a 3min window or 3 (pull,AP1, AP2) im guessing 4 is better but in all honesty when it comes to fights you will most likely save your mark for AoE anyway.

AoE seems so strong. Arcane explosion is amazing the way it is now. Im using it at 3 or more targets but again unsure. The theorycrafters will need to math it out for me. 4 stacks then barrage. Especially with the artifact talent which gives AoE when barrage hits more than 2 targets. When you get a hold of the legendary which gives 20% mana back on barrage you will be laughing for both aoe and ST.

What i like about arcane now is being able to cast a few more extra 4 stack barrages into a prority target when it has to die compared to before where you needed to pool missles for it or just get gimped for a while on your mana %

This is all from what i have tested in no means is it correct since i dont have math for it or tuning passes still yet to come but thats how im playing it if anyone can correct me pls do.

[Alu79]

They seem to have changed the last step of the nexus scenario? I couldn't loot the staff because I didn't have the 3 items, Meitres something...

Doooh. found out how to do it.

So what is the trick? I can't loot the damn thing still after many attempts and resets >< Halp!

[Lebanese Dude]

In today's Blue Posts:

The mandatory ice spells Fire mages hafta take. Can we get glyphs at least? And a fire option on the one all-ice talent tier?

Ans: Haha, I've played a fire mage since vanilla, got yelled at a lot in Molten Core Always wanted a fire barrier, maybe someday! (Muffinus)

Hahaha, I joined in BC. Had similar problems. XD Al'ar.... Great googly moogly, a Fire Barrier would be rad.

Ans: Issue is often: If you're facing another player in PvP, and their spell can look like 9 things, it's much harder to play. (Muffinus)

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So I assume they aren't going to give mages the ability to change the affinity of their ice barrier via glyphs like they did for DK and their own shield.

I mean honestly what the hell? Is it that goddamn difficult to implement? They already have the visuals from removed spells. What's irritating is that they gave it to DKs for a spell that's nowhere near as persistent as Barrier is going to be, given that they're making us the only class with virtually no healing.

And that excuse of PvP is bullshit. If you aren't familiar with what spells do then distinction loses meaning. It's not like there are mana shields and fire shields everywhere either.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

nowhere near as persistent as Barrier

And there's half your answer. The other half is likely that you would want to remove the ice bits, in which case it becomes a generic shield animation, used by multiple effects.

[Komman]

I documented some annoyances with the new Touch of the Magi (holy multiplier stacking) and Aegwynn's. They can be found at http://www.altered-time.com/forum/vi...p=22299#p22299 .

Some of the mechanics look really fishy to me (Doesn't work with Unstable Magic, double dips on multipliers), so I posted in the battle.net TC thread as well: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...16?page=18#341 . Hopefully we get an answer.