PvP Issues Against Healers

[Lulbalance]

oh he's a warrior.. explains all the pictures.

(i actually found this pretty funny.. but i work in marketing so that means pretty much nothing i guess.)

[Saberstrike]

tl;dr godmode isn't fun. Being unable to be killed by one person is god mode. Therefore healers = anti fun.

I've been saying it for years -- make wow healers more like medic in TF2. 120 hp (average), mean but difficult to use weapons (bone saw = highest crit melee weapon in the game, syringe gun = kills in 4-7 shots but has falloff), very limited self-healing -- thus needs to be protected. Current state of healers is an abomination, though I doubt anyone will agree because this forum seems to be filled with blizzard yes-men that think the devs can do no wrong and the game is perfect.

Hell, we've reached a point where people say "Pandaria was the best expansion". What in the actual fuck... -.-

P.S. to those who keep saying "WELL IF YOU NERF HEALERS PEOPLE WILL FOCUS THEM" -- THATS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK!!!!!!!!!! YOU KILL THE ONE IN THE DRESS! Jesus, do you even rpg -_-

[Faenskap]

I'm ok with one healer being able to outlive one dps, purely by healing. One thing I can't stand for though, is a healer being able to kill you, or the very least - being able to dish out quite impressive damage, such as disc priests and holy paladins (shochadin). They should heal, and be able to do minimal damage. A dot on that rogue is fine, but to function as a healer and dps? No.

I'm especially worried about the direction of disc priests in Legion, as rumour has it, they will heal through damage, which they already do, but even more efficiently. Imagine disc priests in the lower brackets... No, I don't want that

Should a healer outlive a dps? Yes
Should a healer be able to dps? No, at least not a significant amount

[tbm13]

I'm ok with one healer being able to outlive one dps, purely by healing. One thing I can't stand for though, is a healer being able to kill you, or the very least - being able to dish out quite impressive damage, such as disc priests and holy paladins (shochadin). They should heal, and be able to do minimal damage. A dot on that rogue is fine, but to function as a healer and dps? No.

I'm especially worried about the direction of disc priests in Legion, as rumour has it, they will heal through damage, which they already do, but even more efficiently. Imagine disc priests in the lower brackets... No, I don't want that

Should a healer outlive a dps? Yes
Should a healer be able to dps? No, at least not a significant amount

^this. This is my whole problem. 1v1 dps vs healer, neither should die. But that's not the case right now, healer vs dps usually ends up with the healer walking away victorious. This is my problem. They should have offensive abilities, but not actual damage.
I like how the rest shaman works in arenas. He's a good healer, does crap damage, BUT if he needs to go offensive, he has the tools to do so. How they do this and keep healers playing differently is a crap shoot though.
To the OP: Waaaaaaaay to much text bro.

[Katie N]

If you have issues against healers with current damage climate, you need to learn where your stun and interrupt buttons are.

[Deleted]

xD love the first post, love the humor, love the content

I agree wholeheartedly. And I almost exclusively heal in pvp. Low level BGs are really refreshing, you try to hide from your enemies, heal your dudes, get some honorable kills, a rogue finds you and two-shots you, then gets bonked by your warrior friends himself, repeat. Lots of kills, lots of fun, fast paced, huehuehue kind of mind-games. It's easier to just casually have a laugh while playing. This tanky/control max level playstyle always feels so tryhard and grumpy.

At max level I log on my destro lock if i want to have any kind of fun as a dps in BGs. If they need 3 globals to full heal then i will make sure to kill them in two

[Sinyc]

If you put in 1/100000000th the time it took you to write that wall of nonsense, into learning to play WoW, you might be able to kill someone in PvP.

[Emophia]

He sucks at PVP and blames the game. He wants to be overpowered again and onehit everybody when popping cds.

Sounds like a typical warrior. For the game's 'toughest' and most 'badass' class they sure do cry a lot.

[Hotmail]

It shouldn't require HUD Addons, a 6+ button mouse, focus macros, DR timers and voice comms just to land a kill anytime a semi-competent healer is present within 40 yards. That is way too high of a barrier of entry for new players.

It's funny to think that the WOTLK meta was so fast-paced (ridiculous at times) that it left many players wanting for something a little slower. We have almost come full circle.

[ItachiZaku]

I read the first bit, and was like.... yeah, as a healer - disc/rDr00d, you won't kill me 1v1. You just won't. Depending on your class, i probably won't kill you either. Just go away or call for help. Any 2 classes vs any healer isn't that bad at all. You just have to time shit and boom, you win.

I scrolled for a long, long time.

[ThePhantombox]

I pulled these numbers out of my ass, but they’re probably very accurate.

What the fuck?

[Auberdeen]

You're a warrior. /end thread

[Deleted]

It shouldn't require HUD Addons, a 6+ button mouse, focus macros, DR timers and voice comms just to land a kill anytime a semi-competent healer is present within 40 yards. That is way too high of a barrier of entry for new players.

1) Just like the healer needs an interupt tracker that reads the combat text, because you can't visually see interupts except for DK afaik. So they are just as boned really. Not sure what you need a gaming mouse for, but for every arena1/2/3 macro you have a healer has three. I agree that I wouldn't wanna start WoW pvp at this point. You'd have like 10 years of catching up to do, with most of it not even being learnable via ingame sources.
2) Healers are very strong (too strong?) in 1v1 survival. Make it 2v1 and they drop really fast, because there's so much shit on so many DRs that your subscription will run out before you can control your character again.


As a healer I think the problem is that for pvp to be fun and fast paced you need healers in pvp, but they have to be squishy backliners. So the healers keep their dps alive, and the dps keep the healer alive and casting. This would translate into fun high-rating pvp. And all random pvp <2000rating and no voice-comm would be a ball of warriors and rogues hitting each other in the face in the middle of the BG/arena. Zero healers. No matter how masochistic you are, there's only so much shit you can take before you go insane.

[Stormspellz]

tl;dr godmode isn't fun. Being unable to be killed by one person is god mode. Therefore healers = anti fun.

I've been saying it for years -- make wow healers more like medic in TF2. 120 hp (average), mean but difficult to use weapons (bone saw = highest crit melee weapon in the game, syringe gun = kills in 4-7 shots but has falloff), very limited self-healing -- thus needs to be protected. Current state of healers is an abomination, though I doubt anyone will agree because this forum seems to be filled with blizzard yes-men that think the devs can do no wrong and the game is perfect.

Hell, we've reached a point where people say "Pandaria was the best expansion". What in the actual fuck... -.-

P.S. to those who keep saying "WELL IF YOU NERF HEALERS PEOPLE WILL FOCUS THEM" -- THATS HOW ITS SUPPOSED TO WORK!!!!!!!!!! YOU KILL THE ONE IN THE DRESS! Jesus, do you even rpg -_-

Facerolling healers has never been easier, so not sure what you want, them to die to strong wind or being simply looked at?

[solarfallz]

S a v i n g g r a c e b o y s

[Deleted]

My god that's incredibly long read, gz to who ever manages to finish it i stopped when he gets into talking about robots and ai mumble jumble.

Add in my comments though: healers are too strong atm especially cloth wearing priests who you can't put any damage into, they are the new Cata paladins.. And as he mentioned dps druid heals are annoying as fuck

[Deleted]

This results from blizzard's philosophy of balancing stuff around the top level, if it's balanced in 2800 3v3 arenas, they consider their job done. This is an incredibly narrow design focus. They still balance wow like a major esports game, which it really isn't anymore - if it ever was one. Didn't they say so themselves?

I find this philosophy pretty weird, considering how few people experience the balanced pvp, and how many have to deal with the unbalanced mess. Compare this to pretty much any other game in any other genre: Everyone can kill everyone else. That doesn't mean they will, tough - there is still a major difference between, for example, a great battlefield player and a bad battlefield player. However, the bad player can still kill something once in a while, like when the advanced player screws up, he cannot simply hit an oh-shit-button like he can in wow, turn around and wtfpwn the other guy.

In the BF example, the noob will end up with something like 4:15 and something resembling a score, in wow, being in a losing situation like that means 0:29, a feeling of utter powerlessness, almost as if it was glitched; and zero contribution (as well as flaming each other while waiting outside the spirit healer's rezfield). This is a major psychological factor. Going against a superior (for random reasons!) team in wow is one of the most frustrating gaming experiences I'm aware of, it's not as disheartening and anti-fun in other games as it is in this one.

Like someone posted before, stuff needs to die more, and screwing up even against lesser opponents needs to have more consequences. A shorter ttk does not make the game unplayable for casual players. The opposite is the case. See: Every pvp game ever.

[LairenyX]

This results from blizzard's philosophy of balancing stuff around the top level, if it's balanced in 2800 3v3 arenas, they consider their job done. This is an incredibly narrow design focus. They still balance wow like a major esports game, which it really isn't anymore - if it ever was one. Didn't they say so themselves?

I find this philosophy pretty weird, considering how few people experience the balanced pvp, and how many have to deal with the unbalanced mess. Compare this to pretty much any other game in any other genre: Everyone can kill everyone else. That doesn't mean they will, tough - there is still a major difference between, for example, a great battlefield player and a bad battlefield player. However, the bad player can still kill something once in a while, like when the advanced player screws up, he cannot simply hit an oh-shit-button like he can in wow, turn around and wtfpwn the other guy.

In the BF example, the noob will end up with something like 4:15 and something resembling a score, in wow, being in a losing situation like that means 0:29, a feeling of utter powerlessness, almost as if it was glitched; and zero contribution (as well as flaming each other while waiting outside the spirit healer's rezfield). This is a major psychological factor. Going against a superior (for random reasons!) team in wow is one of the most frustrating gaming experiences I'm aware of, it's not as disheartening and anti-fun in other games as it is in this one.

Like someone posted before, stuff needs to die more, and screwing up even against lesser opponents needs to have more consequences. A shorter ttk does not make the game unplayable for casual players. The opposite is the case. See: Every pvp game ever.

Hmmm...I feel another good psychology factor would be if Blizzard squished stats to Vanilla level. Yes, you critted big before, but there was the trade-off that players might feel or perceive other players as having TOO MUCH health to kill, and they might have dreaded the perception that they will need to do all that damage to kill a player. On the other hand, you crit smaller, but you perceive the other players as being VERY squishy with like 5k or 7k health pool. When you crit, it still feels good even if your crit was smaller. If you crit and all of a sudden feel your target has like 506 HP left, that's HUGE in term of motivation and adrenaline. It just seems like a bigger win for a stat squish to Vanilla level in term of encouraging as many players as possible to return next expansion and participate in PVP.

This will probably be needed since players have been hit with probably at least 3, if not 4, expansions where they had to deal with complexity and unkillables with big health pool. You probably need to do this to encourage many who experienced the *cried wolf three times* to come back.

The last thing you want is for players to think is, "Ah, fk Legion, it's probably just unkillables with so much health to take down again, screw that"...dang...rough as hell.

[Saberstrike]

Actually the main reason behind the squish was because the old engine reached maximum limit of boss hp for raids, they made the squish to buy themselves some time to fix it, and incidentally spinned it as 'SOMETHING AWESOME FOR EVERYONE' despite it clearly having more faults than pros (some higher level items in mid 70s / 80s have LESS stats than something you'd get 2 zones ago... <insert a "you had one job">.)

[LairenyX]

Hmmm...I think it would be very interesting if Blizzard did a social experiment, if they intend to use Ashran as one of the BGs to test PvP in the alpha servers coming up. While keeping everything the same, except, have one week or weekend where people's HP are current with 2.5 million - 7 million points and up and then have another week/weekend where people's HP were 2500 - 7000 and see what data this produces in term of fighting and conflict avoidance. IMO, you can crit someone for 1,900,000, and it feels nice momentarily; but people might just default to "holy fk I got to do alot of damage to kill... or that dude has a sht ton of HP"...and this is like throwing gasoline at the fire. This might bait out avoidance and discourages fighting mentally.

- - - Updated - - -

It's like one of those situations where you're presented which two scenarios: 1) Would you rather hop over a grain of sand? or 2) Would you rather have Superman's hopping abilities and hop over the Himalayas Mountain?

Which do you feel to be easier??? If you had to make a split second decision on the spot, which would you hop over right away and which would delay you??? This will be the difference between conflict and truce IMO in Ashran.