Which Spriest class fantasy is more appealing to you?

[Deleted]

Keep in mind that our powers as player chars progress over the course of the game. If you keep track of how the classes change over time, you will notice that they have evolved not only in terms of level cap but also as fundamental themes. Shadow priest was....basically nothing, more like a non-canon antithesis of the stereotypical cleric-like priest. Now Priest represents the light/shadow duality of the universe, be it Naaru-Holy, Old God/Void - Shadow or Pragmatism (Discipline).

To sum up, as long as it's well done, I see nothing bad in classes going overboard with exaggerated themes/powers like the case of Shadow wielding Old God/Void powers.

I don't mind lore/charcater development or power progression and I'm perfectly fine with the Void theme.

However so far pretty much anyone with prolonged contact to the Old Gods went insane becoming their servant including the Ulduar wardens created by the titans and a dragon aspect.
And now shadow priest are supposed to walk around with a piece of an Old God in their hand, playing "now I'm insane and now I'm not", still keep control and not become their servants? That's a bit too much for my taste.

[crv33]

I think the Old Gods fantasy is perfect for Shadow Priests. Especially given the cosmology chart from the Warcraft Chronicle book that was previewed the other day (wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/501317.jpg).

My interpretation is that, like the demons of the Burning Legion coming from Fel and Disorder, the Old Gods are the most base physical form of the Void (and by extension, Shadow). So it makes sense that our characters, who are now being recognized as some of the most powerful characters in the lore, would be able to draw that power from things like the Old Gods. And in the case of Death Knights, the Lich King is granting players his power in exchange for fighting the Burning Legion. Perhaps the Old Gods allow us to harness the Void without going completely insane in order to further their own agendas as well.

As for the mechanic of entering Voidform at 100 insanity, that doesn't necessarily mean that we're actually going insane every time we enter Voidform. Maybe the lore explanation could be that we need only reach a certain understanding of the Void, through casting our spells, to grant us access to our more powerful form. And no matter how hard we try to stay in that form, we have to leave it because otherwise we truly WOULD go insane.

For those who have played Bloodborne, that game has a similar problem when you consider elder gods and insanity. In Lovecraft's original works, people who learn too much do go insane and either live the rest of their life in insanity or kill themselves. In Bloodborne, you just respawn when you die from frenzy. It'd be really hard to make a game, especially an MMO, that stays true to Lovecraft's idea of the old gods.

Personally, I'm super excited about the direction Blizzard is going with Shadow Priests. Shadow (the "force", not the spec) has always had close ties to the Old Gods. Voidform looks awesome. The dagger, while new to the lore, fits in well with existing lore and the new vision for the spec. I do totally understand that people might not want to sprout tentacles every time they enter Voidform, so it would be nice for those people to have the option of using a glyph that removes them.

[bloodmoth13]

wtf is this shit? mind manipulation is part of the old god arsenal, in fact its iconic to old god servants!

ravens/vampire/shadow guise have nothing in common and arent a cohesive identity

no reason we cant get a glyph to turn tentacles into ravens

vampyre abilities still exist

and last of all shadow guise isnt a thematic (it IS thematic but its not a separate thematic), and there is nothing stopping them from adding it back

only thing that has really changed is the fact that our mind control powers stem from old god magic, which isnt really even a retcon because nearly all old god servants use psychic magic, and shadow form now sprouts tentacles, which could easily be glyphed into other things (shadow orbs, ravens, pink elephants or whatever)

so really we are exactly the same, only the source of our magic has been explained, which is old god/void

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, another thing to consider is the glyph potential for our tentacles, we could fill all those 'thematics'

Glyph of bats: instead of spawning tentacles, old god energy appears in the form of bats
Glyph of raven: ^ but raven
Glyph of orbs: ^ but orbs

they could really go all out if they wanted

[Gnarilex]

We're literally both. A lot of our spells pre Legion still exist so instead of being this awkward mashup of vampire life sucking magic, psionic mind powers, and other rather generic shadow spells we now have a void theme tacked on to it. It didn't make much sense before and felt like trying to cram multiple themes into one and Legion has only exacerbated the problem. But hey shadowform was cool and ravens looked amazing in place of the shadow orbs so I didn't pay a whole lot attention to the giant thematic mess the spec was. I would have loved for them to fully commit to the void theme, be that more akin to the shadowmoon clan or embracing the Old Gods and creating something truly mad. I would have preferred the latter after everything Ner'zhul and his clan had to offer in WoD. If I were Blizzard I'd go back to square one and redesign it from the ground up to match that. Old Gods feels a bit too specific for a spec that's supposed to control the opposite of the Light but it's a bit too late in the development cycle to go back now.

[Deleted]

So it makes sense that our characters, who are now being recognized as some of the most powerful characters in the lore, would be able to draw that power from things like the Old Gods.

That might work in a single player game where the protagonist somehow is the most powerful being in existence, the chosen one, over 9000 and all that stuff to make "Facemeltor" feel cool.

However this is an MMO with established lore so you don't get to be the One-Above-All - otherwise we'd be seeing mages running around with Ragnaros as pet and warlocks enslaving Sargeras - basically any lore go out of the window.
You probably can develop a blind spot for that blunder and adopt an "it is what it is" attitude - but still, butchering lore just for coolness sake... maybe I'm just getting to old for this shit

[crv33]

That might work in a single player game where the protagonist somehow is the most powerful being in existence, the chosen one, over 9000 and all that stuff to make "Facemeltor" feel cool.

However this is an MMO with established lore so you don't get to be the One-Above-All - otherwise we'd be seeing mages running around with Ragnaros as pet and warlocks enslaving Sargeras - basically any lore go out of the window.
You probably can develop a blind spot for that blunder and adopt an "it is what it is" attitude - but still, butchering lore just for coolness sake... maybe I'm just getting to old for this shit

You're vastly overstating things. "Drawing on power" is something every class has always done. With Legion, and the artifact weapons, it's clear every class is becoming more powerful in terms of the lore. Just because Shadow Priests are gaining that power from the Void (which is manifested as the Old Gods) doesn't make it any more "over 9000" overpowered than any other class. Warlocks aren't enslaving Kil'Jaeden, Hunters aren't taming Ursoc, and we're not summoning C'thun. It's hardly butchering the lore.

[deviantcultist]

That might work in a single player game where the protagonist somehow is the most powerful being in existence, the chosen one, over 9000 and all that stuff to make "Facemeltor" feel cool.

However this is an MMO with established lore so you don't get to be the One-Above-All - otherwise we'd be seeing mages running around with Ragnaros as pet and warlocks enslaving Sargeras - basically any lore go out of the window.
You probably can develop a blind spot for that blunder and adopt an "it is what it is" attitude - but still, butchering lore just for coolness sake... maybe I'm just getting to old for this shit

Void is much like Light, it is not a personified Old God interacting with the Priest hero. Please consider that and don't rush off to kill the pleasure of developing the class. That kind of feeling reminds me of a DM in DnD pen and paper who tries to restrict players to be mundane so that the plot is easy to run.

Well, no, after 10+ years of Warcraft lore, I expect my Priest to have a canon and meaningful source of power and not be a random dps forced spec on top of a healing class.

[Deleted]

You're vastly overstating things. "Drawing on power" is something every class has always done.

Sure. I don't mind that. However "draw that power from things like the Old Gods" IS butchering their current lore.

With Legion, and the artifact weapons, it's clear every class is becoming more powerful in terms of the lore. Just because Shadow Priests are gaining that power from the Void (which is manifested as the Old Gods) doesn't make it any more "over 9000" overpowered than any other class.

Unless you retcon the Old Gods into some minor entities, yes it does. No being on Azeroth has been able to be close to them over a longer period of time (let alone drawing power from them) without falling to them.
With your interpretation shadow priests can do just that on a daily basis an be totally unaffected that does make them "over 9000"-powerful.
Also the Void and the Old Gods are -although connected- different things.

Now of course you can say "I don't care about all that I want my shadow priest to have that cool Old God vibe" which is perfectly fine, but it does clash somewhat with the existing Old God lore and that's why I dislike it.

Void is much like Light, it is not a personified Old God interacting with the Priest hero.

As said before I don't mind the Void - just those close ties to the Old Gods including insanity.

Lose the insanity (call it void attunement if you want to keep the mechanic), make it clear that the priests are *very* careful to keep a clear mind and avoid getting entangled with the Old Gods and maybe drop that tentacle stuff (or at least make them grow on our enemies) and I'm quite happy - at least lorewise.

I expect my Priest to have a canon and meaningful source of power

As do I, however in that regard there isn't that much of a change. Previously it was Shadow now it's Void/Shadow - so they extended the magic source a bit, but that doesn't really change the opposite of Light/Holy theme.
Only difference really is the association with the Old Gods, which is pretty problematic as you cannot follow them and still be in control of your own mind.

[Ealyssa]

#3 Shadow: the darkness cast by the light.

[crv33]

Sure. I don't mind that. However "draw that power from things like the Old Gods" IS butchering their current lore.



Unless you retcon the Old Gods into some minor entities, yes it does. No being on Azeroth has been able to be close to them over a longer period of time (let alone drawing power from them) without falling to them.
With your interpretation shadow priests can do just that on a daily basis an be totally unaffected that does make them "over 9000"-powerful.
Also the Void and the Old Gods are -although connected- different things.

Now of course you can say "I don't care about all that I want my shadow priest to have that cool Old God vibe" which is perfectly fine, but it does clash somewhat with the existing Old God lore and that's why I dislike it.




As said before I don't mind the Void - just those close ties to the Old Gods including insanity.

Lose the insanity (call it void attunement if you want to keep the mechanic), make it clear that the priests are *very* careful to keep a clear mind and avoid getting entangled with the Old Gods and maybe drop that tentacle stuff (or at least make them grow on our enemies) and I'm quite happy - at least lorewise.



As do I, however in that regard there isn't that much of a change. Previously it was Shadow now it's Void/Shadow - so they extended the magic source a bit, but that doesn't really change the opposite of Light/Holy theme.
Only difference really is the association with the Old Gods, which is pretty problematic as you cannot follow them and still be in control of your own mind.

I misspoke a bit about what we'd be drawing power from. What I meant to express is that we draw power from the same source as the Old Gods, which is the Void. The same as how healing priests and paladins draw from the Light. Just as the naaru are the embodiment of the Light, the Old Gods are the embodiment of the Void (as well as Void Lords, but we don't have much information on what those actually are as far as I know, other than fallen naaru).

Anyway, the point is that it makes sense for our use of Shadow and the Void to manifest in ways similar to the ways the Old Gods are manifested, and how they and their servants also use Shadow. Who Mind Flayed first, C'thun's tentacles or Shadow Priests, that sort of thing. As for such a link to cause insanity, we don't really know enough about timelines and how the Old Gods work behind the scenes to manipulate things.

I'm not too familiar with the artifact quest line in the alpha yet, only watched a video once, but I got the impression that the dagger is using us to its own advantage. Two of the first things you do with it are kill/absorb/finish off a faceless general, and then purify a fallen naaru by sucking the void corruption out of it and into the dagger. If it's the case that the dagger truly has a mind of its own and acts on behalf of one or more Old Gods, it wouldn't make sense for it to completely corrupt us, because then we'd be one of the enemies that the rest of our raid is trying to kill.

As for our resource being called insanity, I'd probably agree that it should be renamed something else. To use another Bloodborne analogy, one of your "currencies" in that game is Insight. Maybe something like that would be a better fit for what allows us to enter Voidform.

[Deleted]

If it's the case that the dagger truly has a mind of its own and acts on behalf of one or more Old Gods, it wouldn't make sense for it to completely corrupt us, because then we'd be one of the enemies that the rest of our raid is trying to kill.

Why hold back, when you can take control and keep pretending to still be an ally - see Neltharion. Either way eventually we would fall for their corruption and should turn into an NPC - though I doubt Blizzard will go that far

[Noradin]

I liked the old version much more than the new one.

[Regia]

Your poll is biased. Mind manipulation belongs with "old gods."

The whole bottom row is just random stuff. You could just summarize it with the word "Nostalgia."

[Ambulatory Cube]

#3: Neither :P I'm a troll, my powers come from my loa, not ancient space squids or vampires or birds or any of that jazz, and frankly I've been a little peeved at this sudden "You're all basically Twilight Cultists" change they've thrust upon the spec.

I wish it were possible for them to have unique themes for each race, but I understand the coding nightmare that would be to have a bunch of different versions of the same spell just for flavor. I thoroughly enjoy Old God lore, I just don't like my character being "insane" now. He is of perfectly sound mind and body, thank you very much.

[Noradin]

#3: Neither :P I'm a troll, my powers come from my loa, not ancient space squids or vampires or birds or any of that jazz, and frankly I've been a little peeved at this sudden "You're all basically Twilight Cultists" change they've thrust upon the spec.

Same for me, and I'm a gnome. I don't care for the involvment of Naaru or Old Gods into my class that had never anything to do with them.
They both are highly suspicious fractions that suddenly come around and gift us with "free lunch".

I would never have choosen a priest with the new class fantasy they present and I'm highly annoyed by getting it forced on me if I want to continue playing a character I had for years--not that it stays the same character anyway, at best I keep my progress (achievements and level).

[Gnarilex]

I intensely dislike both the insanity concept and ravens. I have no problem with overlapping powers with the Old Gods, as it makes with both Shadow priests and the Old Gods wielding the power of the Void. I dislike them absolutely dominating all of our aesthetics and flavor though. I'd have preferred they stuck with a more traditional angle, where Shadow priests wield shadow magic and the Void more like a natural force, with our powers being extensions of the properties of the Void. If they really wanted to develop this, they could have pushed a less tentacley, more void god oriented Voidform. Alternatively, they probably could have worked in some stuff from the soul priests.

They had a lot to work with after WoD and the shadowmoon clan who all used void magic (none of which was old god related). I honestly don't know understand why they chose this route. I guess it was easier to go with Old Gods with all of the mind bullshit the spec has so they didn't have to change much of anything.

[wtfzerg]

The direction Blizzard is taking S. Priests in Legion has spurred me to create one, so I definitely have to go with #1.

Huge Lovecraft fan, and the idea of channeling the very essence of madness, glimpsing into an insane world of cyclopean architecture, and making pacts with things too terrible for the mortal mind to rationalize all really appeal to me, fantasy wise.

[Crimewave]

Draenei soulbinder is the most appealing concept for me personally. Like a soul power and afterlife specialist, wielding power it's own soul and mind to influence others. Most shadow abilities supported my "class fantasy" - we caused damage to opponent's mind, harnessed their misery to mend our wounds, planted nightmares and horrible visions.

[Taeldorian]

Mmm I'd say the first option, just without tentacles. I don't know why but tentacles give that weird vibe. A connection with the old gods though is pretty sweet, since they're pretty cool villains. That theme also fits well with the anti-priest that shadow seems to be. I like the whole Shadow is the dark side, Holy is the light side, Disc is the in between. It matches up pretty well, but overall theme #1 seems more interesting.

[Echo of Soul]

I love the old god theme and I think it really fits the theme of our spec. The only thing that troubles me is would I ever fight an old god?