Blizzard going out on a limb once again

[Breccia]

I could see how the team making garrisons and the team making raids could be the same team. I mean, they have to make buildings, NPCs, interactable objects, etc. So I could potentially be convinced that garrisons was why we had only two raid tiers. Maybe.

I can't see how the team making spells and/or the team making artifacts was the team making raids at all. And you would not be able to convince me they are.

[lolbubble]

Atleast the Diablo team managed to salvage a bad game, can't say the same thing about the WoW team

Well said.

[cam5778]

I could see how the team making garrisons and the team making raids could be the same team. I mean, they have to make buildings, NPCs, interactable objects, etc. So I could potentially be convinced that garrisons was why we had only two raid tiers. Maybe.

I can't see how the team making spells and/or the team making artifacts was the team making raids at all. And you would not be able to convince me they are.

I think I read something most of the development time with raids is creating the rooms and related graphics like the raid, not the actual boss or mechanics themselves. I could be completely blowing smoke on that though. I'm not just referring to spells themselves, but you can see how talents and abilities have changed along with the spell animations. They're essentially fixing something that isn't broken, and to me, that's just wasted resources. An animation change and ability prune/change is not going to get me engaged with the game, obviously others may feel different. I think they're trying to get people hyped with stupid stuff like this and we all fall for it every expansion. Raiding should not be the focus of the end game content. That's hard for me to say because I used to be a hardcore elitist raider, that is until raiding felt unrewarding. People shouldn't have to be obligated to raid, there should be multiple pathways towards the same progression point in my opinion.

[Deleted]

All I see from the Legion beta streams is new spell graphics and heavy focus on the artifact weapons. Anyone else feel like they are once again wasting so much development and resources into something they are hoping will be a huge hit, just like they did with garrisons. I just don't think they realize that the most of the WoW population could care less about these things. We need more end game content, a reason to explore the World. They build up so much excitement around these things and it's fun for the first two weeks until you hit max level and there is not much to do.

dont tell them how to do their job

[Thrif]

Yeap, there is a bit much about the Artifacts, I'll agree. I'll wait to see if any other department is actually suffering though, so far everything else seems to be coming along fine too. But yeah, I definitely agree that Artifacts will be like, fun for 1 week, or fun for a day or two whenever you unlock a new skin. But that's it. There's nothing about artifacts that will keep people playing past the first month, it's just a hook, and they're spending quite a hefty bunch of resources on this hook.

[cFortyfive]

I just don't think they realize that the most of the WoW population could care less about these things.

I don't think people have that little interest in graphical updates and more appealing visuals.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Not at all. The fact that you are so moved to make a thread on this topic proves how far gone this community is that you are willing to IMMEDIATELY associate any of these things immediately as negative.

Its a shame too, because Blizzard really did under-deliver with WOD but you equating them spending time on cosmetics to meaning a lack of "end game" is just proof that this game will never recover no matter what.
Some people just want way more than they deserve and no matter how much they are given they will never be satisfied.

[Alopex Major]

Yep, it's pretty sparse. And if you don't like mindlessly grinding for artifact points, well...

New models and new spell animations aren't going to make the game fun.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Its possible they are just advertising those features... doesn't necessarily mean they are focusing purely on them.

[Niwes]

All I see from the Legion beta streams is new spell graphics and heavy focus on the artifact weapons. Anyone else feel like they are once again wasting so much development and resources into something they are hoping will be a huge hit, just like they did with garrisons. I just don't think they realize that the most of the WoW population could care less about these things. We need more end game content, a reason to explore the World. They build up so much excitement around these things and it's fun for the first two weeks until you hit max level and there is not much to do.

first: you are right.
second: we need both.

but blizzard no more wants to invest whats needed to have both. so they try to blend with graphics things because blizzards greatest strength is their art and sound team. and its the one that is most cost efficient and most shiftable.

the simple fact is: content costs money. point. and since wow became one of the biggest cashcow games, they take the "put in least possible effort to get most money out of it" way.

and this way dont work with subscriptions. it works with cost efficiency, big marketing and shiny things, to sell most possible xpacs at release for a price as high as possible. then collect the money from the subs of the following 2-3 months and be happy that your investment was way lower than that. its burst money making. the opposite of long term investments. what happens after that 2-3 months ? hold ppl as cost efficient as possible, but they dont really care. they reached their goals 3 months after release.

the times of long term descissions and investments are over (since a good while). its all about quarter numbers these days. if ppl think blizz dont know everything about "how to make most money" and not fit absolutely everything in creating a wow xpac to that concepts and shareholder descissions, to reach this goal, is just stupid and dont realize what multibillion dollar companies really do and how they act.

or in short: its all about money. and doing more mechanics (just database and math) things and more graphics (see above) things than content stuff, is just more cost efficient. thats all.

brave new world.

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Its possible they are just advertising those features... doesn't necessarily mean they are focusing purely on them.

you should play alpha. then you understand.

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Not at all. The fact that you are so moved to make a thread on this topic proves how far gone this community is that you are willing to IMMEDIATELY associate any of these things immediately as negative.

Its a shame too, because Blizzard really did under-deliver with WOD but you equating them spending time on cosmetics to meaning a lack of "end game" is just proof that this game will never recover no matter what.
Some people just want way more than they deserve and no matter how much they are given they will never be satisfied.

i disagree. strongly. with nearly all your points. why? because i am workin in that biz. and i know exactly why the devs cant do, what they COULD do.

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dont tell them how to do their job

the devs at blizz know exactly what they could do. and what the game needs. and they would say the same as the op. but in irvine its not the devs that decide which way to go... (see above)

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What I am getting at is that each expansion, Blizzard comes up with a new idea that they believe is incredible. They then just invest so many resources into it and are taking a gamble if it'll work or not. For me, I am just setting my expectations very low. I honestly think the whole artifact system and class halls is going to end up being a bust. No offense, but I don't think anyone and even me for that matter, deserves a lore weapon. I can't justify supporting Legion if the philosophy behind the game is minimal effort, high reward. No, I'm not a special snowflake and no I don't believe only certain people are deserving of special entitlements, but I'm a firm believer you should have to earn things, and it's much more rewarding when you do.

you are totally right imo. but i have to add: thats not blizzards fault. the whole gaming industry switched to that easy crap and high rewards playstyle since years. exactly at the moment when gaming became a mass thing instead of a nerd/niche thing.

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there are good oppinions in this thread, with much truth in it. its good to see that not every thread is just a haters vs white knight stupid battle with idiotic arguments used as weapons

[mvaliz]

My opinion is that Blizzard doesn't give a damn about weither it's a hit or not right now - as I believe since WoD they've shifted WoW into what is basically a "public-paid game systems testing realm" where they're going to keep radically re-vamping the game systems (Classes, professions, garrisons, now weapons) with each expansion and see which systems work, and which doesn't - and add or refine those said systems into future games.

[Kahmal]

Brian Holinka - Prior to joining Blizzard Entertainment in 2012, Holinka worked on the multiplayer components of Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Homefront, and Frontlines: Fuel of War. He is pretty new. But focuses exclusively on continuing to make the World of Warcraft PvP. So no world content and pve stuff ruined by him.

I've never heard of any of those games. Ashran is starting to make more an more sense to me

[lanesia24]

All I see from the Legion beta streams is new spell graphics and heavy focus on the artifact weapons. Anyone else feel like they are once again wasting so much development and resources into something they are hoping will be a huge hit, just like they did with garrisons. I just don't think they realize that the most of the WoW population could care less about these things. We need more end game content, a reason to explore the World. They build up so much excitement around these things and it's fun for the first two weeks until you hit max level and there is not much to do.

Do you think the artist and animation team is creating end game content in WoW? I mean do some of you people not think anything through? There are many different teams in WoW, not all of them work on end game content. A shocking though I know, but it does happen.

[Destroxo]

Personally super excited for the Artifact system, instead of receiving "X Staff/Sword/Axe/Dagger of X Stats" it actually provides you with a form of content that can be attributed to grouping or soloing the world and how you go about that is up to you, the worlds your oyster.

Not sure how new content/additions can be seen as a negative.

[thebelltolleth]

Not sure how new content/additions can be seen as a negative.

Did you perhaps just start your WoW experience with Legion Alpha? Not took a whiff of WoD? Cata? No?

[Orangetai420]

Atleast the Diablo team managed to salvage a bad game, can't say the same thing about the WoW team

After a few key members left the Diablo team that is. I wonder when they will take the hint regarding WoW...

[Destroxo]

Did you perhaps just start your WoW experience with Legion Alpha? Not took a whiff of WoD? Cata? No?

Have been playing since early Vanilla, only break was through early MoP.

As always I would prefer options over nothing at all

[Lochton]

All I see from the Legion beta streams is new spell graphics and heavy focus on the artifact weapons. Anyone else feel like they are once again wasting so much development and resources into something they are hoping will be a huge hit, just like they did with garrisons. I just don't think they realize that the most of the WoW population could care less about these things. We need more end game content, a reason to explore the World. They build up so much excitement around these things and it's fun for the first two weeks until you hit max level and there is not much to do.

They are working on things that has to be updated by these times. So what if some might not notice it, others will. Even at that, most sadly rush content anyways.

[Irian]

Yes, but artifact weapons aren't a gamble like Garrisons are, though. Think about it.

Garrisons were a part of the game that was shoehorned into being a core element. They expected you to care about them yet gave you no real reason to, and for Horde players they were even abysmally ugly. They provided no gameplay themselves, and the only gameplay that came out of them was a lot of UI clicking, maintenance and "choices".

Artifact weapons are simply a new, direct secondary progression path for your character. It's integrated in virtually all gameplay and everything you do will, in a way, be involved with them. It would honestly be hard for Blizzard to fuck Artifact weapons up, so naturally they're putting a ton of effort into them to make them enjoyable and fun.

[rda]

Yes, but artifact weapons aren't a gamble like Garrisons are, though. Think about it.

Garrisons were a part of the game that was shoehorned into being a core element. They expected you to care about them yet gave you no real reason to, and for Horde players they were even abysmally ugly. They provided no gameplay themselves, and the only gameplay that came out of them was a lot of UI clicking, maintenance and "choices".

Artifact weapons are simply a new, direct secondary progression path for your character. It's integrated in virtually all gameplay and everything you do will, in a way, be involved with them. It would honestly be hard for Blizzard to fuck Artifact weapons up, so naturally they're putting a ton of effort into them to make them enjoyable and fun.

If we compare garrisons to artifacts, then garrisons at least provided *some* gameplay. Buildings, garrison campaign, followers. Yes, it wasn't overly big and most parts were pretty bland and got very boring very fast, but it was at least something.

Artifacts provide zero gameplay. OK, nearly zero since there are initiation quests.