is WoW PvP too hardcore to be successful?

[Deleted]

I still remember people saying that WoW PvP shouldn't be considered an E-sport. I've always wondered where that notion came from...WoW PvP is like the essence of E-sport. You have 60+ keybinds (all of which have to be used very, VERY quickly) all across your keyboard. You need an insane level of awareness, insane level of reaction speed, learn to come up with new tactics in milliseconds and communicate as well as execute these with your partners. It has everything E-sport is about.

I don't want to compare WoW PvP too much with like MOBAs etc...but have you actually seen the faces of WoW players when competing at like Blizzcon? They are SO tense, so excited...so alive. And then you watch like for example a SMITE tournament...it's the friggin final...prize pool 1.3 million or w/e...and the dudes are like chilling...they look like they could use an energy drink...and the commentators are only pretending that there is something to talk about...and then you have Azael...one of the fastest speaking commentators in all of history and EVEN HE can't cover everything that's going on...like not even close.

WoW PvP is fucking INSANE at a high level. It's actually stupid how hard 3v3 can get.

And this is where I see the problem. In WoW PvP there is SO much to learn before you can even start playing at a high rating. Nowadays, people don't want that. They just cba learning every friggin ability of every spec in the game and how they work with pretty much everything else. Everything is intertwined. It's simply too much for most people. They just want to log in...manage 4 abilities and aim a bit here and there...or they just want to have a reticle on their screen wait some and then klick some whenever they see something moving.

Props to everyone playing at 2700+ in 3v3 Arenas. You are the kings of E-sports.

[Venaliter]

Too unbalanced to be successful. Some classes outright better then others. I saw a statistic that the highest represented healer, a Resto Druid, is 10x more represented then the lowest, Priests.

It's something different to do with your toon, who we all form bonds with, while you wait for PvE stuff. If your a primarily PvP driven player, there are better games out there for you.

[Deleted]

lol... WoW pvp and hardcore in the same sentence... Can it even get any easier than this and people still call this my little pony difficulty hardcore? What kind of parallel universe is dis!

Since cata I played most classes at max level pvp and not once it took me more than a day to learn how to pvp with it. Now in WoD everything is so dumbed down my freaking cat could hit 2k.

[Deleted]

lol... WoW pvp and hardcore in the same sentence... Can it even get any easier than this and people still call this my little pony difficulty hardcore? What kind of parallel universe is dis!

win Blizzcon and then come back

[Bobzor]

Pushing BGs as the competitive version of PvP would've reached far greater success. It's so hard for casual players to understand all that's going on in an arena. It's much easier to follow and grasp the objectives in a battleground.

[Sorthalis]

It's not balanced and over monopolized.

[skitzin]

Pushing BGs as the competitive version of PvP would've reached far greater success. It's so hard for casual players to understand all that's going on in an arena. It's much easier to follow and grasp the objectives in a battleground.

Was that not the whole point of RBGs? To provide those who either disliked arena or preferred BG style objectives to have an outlet to do so?

[Bisso]

win Blizzcon and then come back

win CS:GO dreamhack and come back.

[Bobzor]

Was that not the whole point of RBGs? To provide those who either disliked arena or preferred BG style objectives to have an outlet to do so?

Yes, but it never caught on because of arenas being in the game for so long. If RBGs would've been implemented in TBC in stead of arenas the e-sports scene would look a lot different I believe.

[Deleted]

win CS:GO dreamhack and come back.

yeah CS:GO and the aiming...it's really, really, really hard to master...but it's the only thing to master.

[Thelxi]

I wouldn't necessarily say it is too hardcore, but I do definitely think that it is very contrived in it's difficulty with CC/DRs/setting up kills/comp viability that many people are turned off and uninterested in really pursuing high ratings.

[tj119]

I love pvp in WoW, i'm proud of the achievements and titles i have obtained and it took a lot of dedication but as its already been said wow pvp is way too unbalanced and Pretty obvious it never will be.

[Tangra]

I still remember people saying that WoW PvP shouldn't be considered an E-sport. I've always wondered where that notion came from...WoW PvP is like the essence of E-sport. You have 60+ keybinds (all of which have to be used very, VERY quickly) all across your keyboard. You need an insane level of awareness, insane level of reaction speed, learn to come up with new tactics in milliseconds and communicate as well as execute these with your partners. It has everything E-sport is about.

I don't want to compare WoW PvP too much with like MOBAs etc...but have you actually seen the faces of WoW players when competing at like Blizzcon? They are SO tense, so excited...so alive. And then you watch like for example a SMITE tournament...it's the friggin final...prize pool 1.3 million or w/e...and the dudes are like chilling...they look like they could use an energy drink...and the commentators are only pretending that there is something to talk about...and then you have Azael...one of the fastest speaking commentators in all of history and EVEN HE can't cover everything that's going on...like not even close.

WoW PvP is fucking INSANE at a high level. It's actually stupid how hard 3v3 can get.

And this is where I see the problem. In WoW PvP there is SO much to learn before you can even start playing at a high rating. Nowadays, people don't want that. They just cba learning every friggin ability of every spec in the game and how they work with pretty much everything else. Everything is intertwined. It's simply too much for most people. They just want to log in...manage 4 abilities and aim a bit here and there...or they just want to have a reticle on their screen wait some and then klick some whenever they see something moving.

Props to everyone playing at 2700+ in 3v3 Arenas. You are the kings of E-sports.

You definitely have a good point, and I have though about this exact issue before as well; very few games have controls as awkward and complex as WoW, which gives a huge advantage to people with good muscle memory in their fingers, as well as people who are incredibly strong mutli-taskers and can thus keep track of so many things at once.

So, yes, these extremes, which are really not anywhere near as prevalent in other games, give some people a monstrous advantage, leading to the sad reality that WoW PvP is so demanding at high levels that you are either born good at it, or you're not, and nothing short of quitting your job and PvPing constantly can help you catch up. Countless good video game players simply can't easily memorize so many key-bindings or keep track of so many factors, without amounts of training that are ridiculous for a video game.

These same issue also ruins balance, because countless dedicated players are so burdened by the outrageous amount of abilities in this game that even the smallest imbalance between specs can completely throw their game off. So, yes I agree, however, I would make the correction that WoW PvP is not exactly too hardcore, it's just too biased toward skill-sets that only some people have. Combining PvP and RPG is a huge challenge, due to the fact that RPG characters are supposed to be very complex and have countless abilities, while PvP does not really thrive on this complexity, since there is already so much else to keep track of when going head-to-head with another human being.

[Oopsmezedya]

no people dont want to jury rig their keyboards to somehow accomidate for 40+ ability macros when even games like LoL are more competetive and successful with 4 abilities only, the amount of buttons you have to spam doesnt increase the skill of the game at all, if anything WoW pvp is just very poorly designed and revolves around CC spaming more than anything else, strongest comps as usuall are mage and rogue spamming CC with the best healer that so happens to spam CC

[Hand Banana]

A few things about this in my opinion. First off, the unbalanced argument is stupid. People claim the game is unbalanced then a completely non-FOTM comp wins tournaments because they played better. MOBAs are often just as unbalanced.

In my opinion the biggest reason it isn't an esport is that is isn't fun to watch. Sorry to people who watch streams all day but as a ~2400 player since WOTLK I dislike watching other people play. There is too much going on and too much to keep track of to be enjoyable, even more so when people have crazy UI's. I end up just staring at gladius and seeing who's in CC and whos at what health or under what cds. I don't want to make myself work to fully grasp whats happening since I'm just watching.

I played League for a little while, never even got to lvl 30 for ranked stuff, but I can watch pro's play and understand what is happening and see good "plays" happening and such. Wow pvp is exciting and difficult to play (anyone who says its not is probably the warrior in a TSG), but theres so many little things like forcing cds and lining up cc that isn't readily visible to a viewer unless you are really paying attention.

[Tangra]

no people dont want to jury rig their keyboards to somehow accomidate for 40+ ability macros when even games like LoL are more competetive and successful with 4 abilities only, the amount of buttons you have to spam doesnt increase the skill of the game at all, if anything WoW pvp is just very poorly designed and revolves around CC spaming more than anything else, strongest comps as usuall are mage and rogue spamming CC with the best healer that so happens to spam CC

Yup, it really is the outrageous amount of abilities that truly ruins competitive PvP for so many people, although of course balance is often bad as well. Some people just don't have the natural talent, other don't like the hassle, and only a small sub-set of people can learn so many bindings easily due to talent, and so they dominate. WoW doesn't just need better balance, what it needs way more is a drastic gutting of how many buttons are needed in PvP. Having to face or get behind your target in order to do the most dps or to be able to dodge is also something that could use a look.

[Deleted]

You definitely have a good point, and I have though about this exact issue before as well; very few games have controls as awkward and complex as WoW, which gives a huge advantage to people with good muscle memory in their fingers, as well as people who are incredibly strong mutli-taskers and can thus keep track of so many things at once.

So, yes, these extremes, which are really not anywhere near as prevalent in other games, give some people a monstrous advantage, leading to the sad reality that WoW PvP is so demanding at high levels that you are either born good at it, or you're not, and nothing short of quitting your job and PvPing constantly can help you catch up. Countless good video game players simply can't easily memorize so many key-bindings or keep track of so many factors, without amounts of training that are ridiculous for a video game.

These same issue also ruins balance, because countless dedicated players are so burdened by the outrageous amount of abilities in this game that even the smallest imbalance between specs can completely throw their game off. So, yes I agree, however, I would make the correction that WoW PvP is not exactly too hardcore, it's just too biased toward skill-sets that only some people have. Combining PvP and RPG is a huge challenge, due to the fact that RPG characters are supposed to be very complex and have countless abilities, while PvP does not really thrive on this complexity, since there is already so much else to keep track of when going head-to-head with another human being.

awesome contribution. good read. I recommend.

- - - Updated - - -

A few things about this in my opinion. First off, the unbalanced argument is stupid. People claim the game is unbalanced then a completely non-FOTM comp wins tournaments because they played better. MOBAs are often just as unbalanced.

In my opinion the biggest reason it isn't an esport is that is isn't fun to watch. Sorry to people who watch streams all day but as a ~2400 player since WOTLK I dislike watching other people play. There is too much going on and too much to keep track of to be enjoyable, even more so when people have crazy UI's. I end up just staring at gladius and seeing who's in CC and whos at what health or under what cds. I don't want to make myself work to fully grasp whats happening since I'm just watching.

I played League for a little while, never even got to lvl 30 for ranked stuff, but I can watch pro's play and understand what is happening and see good "plays" happening and such. Wow pvp is exciting and difficult to play (anyone who says its not is probably the warrior in a TSG), but theres so many little things like forcing cds and lining up cc that isn't readily visible to a viewer unless you are really paying attention.

another awesome read. cheers dude.

[Syh]

yeah CS:GO and the aiming...it's really, really, really hard to master...but it's the only thing to master.

There are more things than that, such as properly moving, grenade spots (smokes can get pretty intricate), assisting your team with grenades (pop flashing for a teammate does takes practice, timed flash/moltov with a teammate, assisting with smokes, etc), working as a team in general (communication, coordination, so many fail at this in WoW and CSGO both), proper crosshair placement/prefiring, and extensive knowledge of every map you'll play in a competitive setting are all things that take practice.

Don't get me wrong, there are more things to learn for WoW PvP. I just personally find those things easier to learn but perhaps it's because I've been playing for a while now..

Either way, both take a lot of time and practice to exceed at. They're hard to compare since they're two very different games.

[Stormspellz]

Was that not the whole point of RBGs? To provide those who either disliked arena or preferred BG style objectives to have an outlet to do so?

except the rampant with cheating so no one takes it seriously, and people are essentially forced to play it for the rng loot chance is another giant fail this expansion.

[Wildberry]

Countless good video game players simply can't easily memorize so many key-bindings or keep track of so many factors, without amounts of training that are ridiculous for a video game.

No, we just call those people "bad." If you can't memorize "All of these really, super-duper hard key bindings" then you're not a "good video game player."