Archimonde Mythic - help request.

[Deleted]

Hello,

Recently my guild start to progress mythic Archimonde. We make only a few tries (~20) 'cuz we want to do a little lighter raid night after killing Mannoroth. The thing we wanna check the most was our capability to do 1 doomfire burst at P1.

Here are our logs from last night:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pxFdADNCvbPMG9h3

At the start we try doin' it with 2 healers just too check healing requirements, but at last we switch to 3 healing it. We make a lot of mistakes with fires soaking before allures, takin' unnecessary stacks by mdps which provide heavy dmg before Shadofel Burst and few lesser mistakes but we just start to learn the fight.
The most important thing to check last night was our capability to do P1 with burst tactic. In last few pulls we were missing about 1% to transition without second doomfire. We can bring 1 more mage, 1 more boomy and 2 locks affi but I'm not the biggest fan of making our raid mix of only mages/hunters/balances and locks. Is there any place for improvements in our current group or do we need to stack more class with hight burst dmg at start?
We are still learning the fight and will start true progress in a week or two so our dps will propably increase a bit when everyone will be more confident about positioning but I want to now is there a chance that with curent group we will be able to use 1 doomfire tactic or it will be better to start with 2-3 doomfire tactic and don't waste a time for wiping with current tactic 'cuz of too low dps.

In logs check only our burst phase 'cuz in many attempts we call a wipe when second doomfire apear or we just stand there don't doing dps after killing second one to just check positioning for Wroughts and Shackless in P2.

Thx in advance for answers.

[Relapses]

Nearly every single one of your DPS is underperforming by like... 30-40%. To be completely honest, with your DPS it might be easier to 3-4 heal, deal with 2 Doomfires and use Lust somewhere in the last phase. It'll make progression take a bit longer but your DPS, quite frankly, just isn't up to par. At all.

[Mrinformation]

It won't let me open your logs but here's my two cents.

Make sure ring and soulcap explosions ONLY hit boss. Make sure first doom fire dies quickly so ring/soulcap isn't split and lots of wasted dps. Use heriosm and all dps cool downs at the start to push him in one doomfire. Everyone should be focusing archimonde when the first big dad comes out. Only do passive Cleve and kill it once you get into phase 2.

My guild clears mythic archimonde twice per week and we use the 1 doomfire strat.

[Deleted]

3-4 heal, deal with 2 Doomfires and use Lust somewhere in the last phase.

To only comment on a detail on that, I doubt 4 healing and getting only 2 DFires is possible if what you said is true about them being bad at their classes (I wouldn't know). I'm not sure if it's even possible at the ilevel at all. But it probably is if enough burst classes are there.

[Deja Thoris]

You should be able to make the dps check easily.

Just from a quick look at the logs people can improve a LOT. Tell people to practice their openers GCD for GCD on dummies.

Half your mages just fire off a couple of arcane blasts then cast AP then cast a bit more and then plant their crystal (one doesnt even use crystal )
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=timeline I mean look at that opener.

An arcane mage has tiny burst windows where hes a fucking God. He gets 44% more damage from his ring, 20% more from arcane power, 30% more damage onto his prismatic crystal and ~35% more damage from his class trinket. You need to get that 15 seconds perfect. You can't just mash random buttons and hope for a good outcome.
An opener should look like this https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=timeline


Also, I'm pretty against mages playing fire for progression. Sure you can have ace combustions and padlord the doggies but on progress they are useless in p3 for stuff like infernals and void stars.

tl;dr. Hit dummies and perfect openers.

[Wilderness]

I don't believe that the 1 doomfire strat is better than doing 2 doomfire's and having hero in P3 for progression. There are others on here who will disagree with that, but I think that you'll end up with less wipes overall if you save it. I don't know what classes you'd be changing in/out for the locks or boomkin you mentioned, but boomkins and locks are great on infernals in P3. You've already got 2 boomkins in, which is great, but a lock or two would help a lot as well. A single boomkin with CDs popped for an infernal wave will put out a lot of damage, just make sure to assign them to different waves.

I agree with what Deja said - Fire is the worst mage spec in the last phase. Add damage is going to be really low and killing adds quickly in P3 is all that matters. For add damage in the last phase it would be Frost, then Arcane, then Fire. Your Fire mage does seem to be playing pretty well though, so if that's what he's really best at its fine, but you will need to compensate for that in P3. Mages in general aren't great on adds in P3, so having 4+ means that hunters, boomkins, and locks really need to step up and balance that out. That's another reason to have hero in P3 for the wave where stars/infernals/dance all come one after another.

[Adramelch]

You should be able to make the dps check easily.

Just from a quick look at the logs people can improve a LOT. Tell people to practice their openers GCD for GCD on dummies.

Half your mages just fire off a couple of arcane blasts then cast AP then cast a bit more and then plant their crystal (one doesnt even use crystal )
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&view=timeline I mean look at that opener.

I particularly like how he uses PoM to get a blast on Archi, right after Crystal is gone (while also having 0.7 seconds of nothing in between PoM and that Arcane blast).

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It won't let me open your logs but here's my two cents.

Make sure ring and soulcap explosions ONLY hit boss. Make sure first doom fire dies quickly so ring/soulcap isn't split and lots of wasted dps.

We use a soulcap to cleave the doomfire. As long as it doesn't overkill, there's no reason that "soulcap ONLY hits the boss".

[Mrinformation]

I particularly like how he uses PoM to get a blast on Archi, right after Crystal is gone (while also having 0.7 seconds of nothing in between PoM and that Arcane blast).

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We use a soulcap to cleave the doomfire. As long as it doesn't overkill, there's no reason that "soulcap ONLY hits the boss".

Legendary ring lasts 15 seconds and soul cap last 10 seconds. We just passively cleave, havoc, etc and it does in like 5-6. If your soulcap expires and hits the doomfire when it's at low health the there's a good chance the soulcap damaged that was halfed was overkill and could have gone into boss. Maybe we just have way too much damage in the raid anyway. You definitely want it killed before 15 seconds to not waste ring and make it easier for doomfire soaker.

[Broccoliz]

From personal experience, just deal with 2 doomfires and 4 heal. The last phase is insane, having an extra healer and lust in p3 is beyond nice. And the only downfall of this strat is that your off tank has something to do..... we had a disc soak fire 1 and the tank not on boss at the time of allure grab fire 2. It was very easy once you work out defensives (personal and external) and barely changes the difficulty of the fight besides for that one person you can hopefully trust. P3 was 100 times easier with lust and 4 healers - it would be very hard to get through one of the last waves of infernals without hero (since you can only use ring twice last phase).

Don't try to push for one doomfire if it's not looking possible. Nothing is wrong with "slow and steady wins the race". Play smarter not harder. That being said even to phase with 4 healers 2 doomfires can be a struggle you have to practice to achieve. Make sure even your healers are pre potting and full DPSing the boss at the beginning.

[Deleted]

From personal experience, just deal with 2 doomfires and 4 heal. The last phase is insane, having an extra healer and lust in p3 is beyond nice. And the only downfall of this strat is that your off tank has something to do..... we had a disc soak fire 1 and the tank not on boss at the time of allure grab fire 2. It was very easy once you work out defensives (personal and external) and barely changes the difficulty of the fight besides for that one person you can hopefully trust. P3 was 100 times easier with lust and 4 healers - it would be very hard to get through one of the last waves of infernals without hero (since you can only use ring twice last phase).

Don't try to push for one doomfire if it's not looking possible. Nothing is wrong with "slow and steady wins the race". Play smarter not harder. That being said even to phase with 4 healers 2 doomfires can be a struggle you have to practice to achieve. Make sure even your healers are pre potting and full DPSing the boss at the beginning.

They probably have 5 to 10 lower ilevel than you. I suspect 3-healing is needed for most guilds around 740 or lower. I wouldn't be surprised though if being super optimized or/and using the perfect classes for it could pull off 4 healing/2 doomfires/no bloodlust with lower ilevel.

[billyjean]

u guys are taking a lot of desecration damage. range should stack beside pillar for orb buff before spreading for shadowburst. 3 heal 2 doomfire , save lust for p3 is easier for progression imo.

[Deja Thoris]

They probably have 5 to 10 lower ilevel than you. I suspect 3-healing is needed for most guilds around 740 or lower. I wouldn't be surprised though if being super optimized or/and using the perfect classes for it could pull off 4 healing/2 doomfires/no bloodlust with lower ilevel.

We 2 healed our first kill at less than 740. Shows how bad our dps is ^_^

[PosPosPos]

The last phase is insane, having an extra healer...in p3 is beyond nice.

Haha, no.

The only real threats in this phase are

1) Infernals spawning
2) The marks before that which lower the raid's health, making Infernals a threat in the first place

Of which having additional healers is only a detriment to the raid, when you can just pop a 3 minute or have your disc power infusion + ring for each of the infernals.

[Nitros14]

Having lust in phase 3 is definitely really nice because it means you can ring infernal wave 3 and lust+potions infernal wave 4. If you can get through those two infernal waves reliably a kill is imminent.

Most first kills are somewhere between "infernal wave 5 just spawned!" and a little bit after infernal wave 4 so more boss dps doesn't usually mean anything unless you can skip infernal wave 4 (highly unlikely). Big cooldowns for those infernal waves mean a lot.

We tried 3 heal lust in phase 1 for a bit but found it unreliable and went to 4 heal 2 doomfire lust in phase 3. The extra doomfire isn't too bad considering you have an extra healer. We have our tank take 15 and our disc take 5 stacks.

This was our first kill if it helps

[Styxxa]

I don't believe that the 1 doomfire strat is better than doing 2 doomfire's and having hero in P3 for progression. There are others on here who will disagree with that, but I think that you'll end up with less wipes overall if you save it.

Came here to say this. You don't even have a true sense of the difficult part of the encounter yet, which is p3 dealing with Infernals and in particular the Void Star, Infernals, Seething Corruption combo. You will want to stack classes that can deal with that more than classes that can burst the boss in p1 - and you will want lust in p3 to help ease the pressure.

Bursting with 1 Doomfire and lust on pull is a nice little strategy once you understand p3 and have a few players who have demonstrated they can handle the Infernals, allowing just about everyone else to focus the boss, but it is not a very forgiving tactic to start progression with.

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From personal experience, just deal with 2 doomfires and 4 heal. The last phase is insane, having an extra healer and lust in p3 is beyond nice.

I agree with 2 Doomfires but no way should you need 4 healers - especially in p3. p3 is the reason that less healers are preferable because that extra DPS is really important to deal with adds and whittle the boss down. On our first kill we had a healer die right at the start of p3 (that damn crack) but we kept going with 2 and made it.

[Adramelch]

Came here to say this. You don't even have a true sense of the difficult part of the encounter yet, which is p3 dealing with Infernals and in particular the Void Star, Infernals, Seething Corruption combo. You will want to stack classes that can deal with that more than classes that can burst the boss in p1 - and you will want lust in p3 to help ease the pressure.

Bursting with 1 Doomfire and lust on pull is a nice little strategy once you understand p3 and have a few players who have demonstrated they can handle the Infernals, allowing just about everyone else to focus the boss, but it is not a very forgiving tactic to start progression with..

At the same time though, I could argue that doing the 1 Doomfire strat, gives you more time to learn p3, both because p1+p2 go faster and because they are easier so less wipes inbetween.

[Deleted]

To only comment on a detail on that, I doubt 4 healing and getting only 2 DFires is possible if what you said is true about them being bad at their classes (I wouldn't know). I'm not sure if it's even possible at the ilevel at all. But it probably is if enough burst classes are there.

4 healing with 1 doomfire is possible too.

My guild's done it a few times.

[Adramelch]

4 healing with 1 doomfire is possible too.

My guild's done it a few times.

That defeats the purpose so much though. Overhealing at its finest.

[Nitros14]

At the same time though, I could argue that doing the 1 Doomfire strat, gives you more time to learn p3, both because p1+p2 go faster and because they are easier so less wipes inbetween.

I'm not sure that's true, most guilds I see trying it these days wipe 50% of their phase 1's because they didn't phase it in time then waste all the time running back in and getting buffed up. Could keep going I guess but with a doomfire up during wrought with a deathcaller 3-healing it's messy.

[Adramelch]

I'm not sure that's true, most guilds I see trying it these days wipe 50% of their phase 1's because they didn't phase it in time then waste all the time running back in and getting buffed up. Could keep going I guess but with a doomfire up during wrought with a deathcaller 3-healing it's messy.

Mind you, I'm in a higher rank guild, and we actually killed the boss with the traditional old 4 healers/3 doomfires strat, but since we changed to 3/1 we've never (intentionally) wiped due to getting a 2nd doomfire, and we've actually killed it a couple of times like that.

I don't believe the 1 doomfire strat is superior for progress, I just wanted to show that there are arguments for both sides.