TTIP secret negotiation papers revealed

[Slant]

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaf...ellt-1.2975097
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-us-trade-deal

[Edited an English version in, thanks @Shadowmelded]

It's largely in German, I suppose the international papers are catching up tomorrow. Basically, the secret negotiation papers have been made public by Greenpeace, verified by three major German news outlets and confirm that the worst European consumer protection fears were even surpassed. The papers seem to show that the US are applying massive pressure to open up the European market for US gene-modified food products and also want to undermine the European precautionary principle that basically says if there is even a hint of a health risk in products, the EU can sanction harsh conditions for sale on the European market.

Another big issue that was mentioned is how the regulation authorities in the US are influenced heavily by US lobbyists and how they want to enable those lobbyists to pressure the European regulation authorities indirectly. This is in combination with the debate about an independent court where US companies can actually sue European countries if they feel discriminated against.

I am getting a bit pissed off at the deal, tbh. I used to be pretty indifferent, thinking we'd have a solid base to build that trade zone on. But after reading those exerpts, I'm pretty much dead set against it.

What's your take on it?

[Skulltaker]

What's your take on it?

Gabriel will be lucky to escape the country with his enormous fat head attached.

BTW, english version of the article.

The Papers themselves will be published tomorrow (Monday, 2nd of May)

I was opposed from the first time I heard of it, and this 'leak' does two things for me. It confirms my suspicions and it renews my faith that at least some german politicians have a decent bone left in them. Whomever leaked those to greenpeace deserves the Bundestverdienstkreuz.

[Deleted]

My opinion is that I'll be able to say "I told you so" to all the people telling me I was paranoid and these deals are good.

Other than that, since these things are preety much what I expected, which is why I am and was against TTIP in the first place, because hidden talks and lobby groups can lead to these things, and seems they have.

[Slant]

My opinion is that I'll be able to say "I told you so" to all the people telling me I was paranoid and these deals are good.

Other than that, since these things are preety much what I expected, which is why I am and was against TTIP in the first place, because hidden talks and lobby groups can lead to these things, and seems they have.

Yeah. I guess I'm one of those. While I always had a problem with those negotiations being secret (Wtf for? It's not like it's a military secret...) I just assumed the "interface" between the EU and the US would fix it so everyone is happy with a compromise. Instead, it looks like someone thinks they can just transpose their mediocre standards onto the EU without much hassle.

[Shadowmelded]

Another English version.

I wonder what this will do for the Brexit campaign (not to make the whole topic anglo-centric or anything :P) but there's not exactly been a robust left wing argument for the EU other than "We can reform it" and even that's not been adopted enthusiastically. This will probably start turning more on the left against the EU, especially if their vision of a "Social Europe" is basically precluded by TTIP.

[Deleted]

Yeah. I guess I'm one of those. While I always had a problem with those negotiations being secret (Wtf for? It's not like it's a military secret...) I just assumed the "interface" between the EU and the US would fix it so everyone is happy with a compromise. Instead, it looks like someone thinks they can just transpose their mediocre standards onto the EU without much hassle.

What I fear is that they might succeed with the support of european legislators as many of the european legislators don't care for the wishes of the people anymore, rather they care for money, even if some do it out of greed and some out of a wish for more money for the EU to help the people. This deal can bring quite a bit of money back to the EU... and I fear that people from the EU side discussing this might only care about that argument above the problems that would arise.

[Strangebrew]

It's terrifying that there is such big movements to get shit like this through, completely driven by dipshits like Obama praising it left and right.

We have known that these trade deals will undermine consumer rights and protection for a long time, but stuff like this just confirms it, and more it spreads, the better.
I am fucking disgusted by people who support this, and the people who are the driving force behind these, it's purely fueled by greed and no regard for the common man.

I guess the the bright side is that people are waking up, we are seeing mass protests already.
Germany had a massive parade where they protested against it with over 200k people or so recently?
Even here we are seeing gigantic protests, but yet, we don't know if these protests will help anything.

These trade deals are being negotiated behind our backs and behind hidden doors, even most of our politicians are oblivious to how dangerous they are, and are completely jumping to the beat of Obama's disgusting shilling and the rest behind this garbage.

When you see shit like this, and the stuff going on behind the doors, i can only think how much we are regressing and is dooming ourself.

[Acidbaron]

Not eating such american produced food if i even got paid to eat it.

[Skulltaker]

I guess the the bright side is that people are waking up, we are seeing mass protests already.
Germany had a massive parade where they protested against it with over 200k people or so recently?

35k according to media, 90k according to the hosts of the protest. As I was there last weekend, 90k seems much more on the spot then 35k.

[Strangebrew]

35k according to media, 90k according to the hosts of the protest. As I was there last weekend, 90k seems much more on the spot then 35k.

Guess i misrememberd then, but up to 100k is still a good amount, and i reckon we will see bigger protests than that the closer we get to the deal and more information we get.

Media here are being extremely silent on it, only smaller local news outlets actually report on it at all.

[Slant]

35k according to media, 90k according to the hosts of the protest. As I was there last weekend, 90k seems much more on the spot then 35k.

Well, I usually don't go to these protests, but I think I'll go to the next one near me. Not because I'm against the trade deal in general, but mostly because I am sick and tired of this secrecy. I don't even know what I should or should not protest against, and that's the big issue for me personally.

I hope European politicians start some serious explaining this week, otherwise they'll remove any argument I am making these days pro EU.

[Karamaru]

Never even once believed this trade deal was for the benefit for the European people when behind closed doors can only mean things that they dont want us to hear,no time to point this thing to the paper shredder where it belongs.

[Slant]

Guess i misrememberd then, but up to 100k is still a good amount, and i reckon we will see bigger protests than that the closer we get to the deal and more information we get.

Media here are being extremely silent on it, only smaller local news outlets actually report on it at all.

Well, Sueddeutsche, ARD and WRD are major news outlets here. You can't spread it much further in Germany than they do. I am confident that Norway's news agencies will pick up on this, see the Guardian link (which sounds just as bad as the German ones, albeit they focus on other aspects... it's all rotten if you ask me).

[I Push Buttons]

You caught us Europe! We are trying to assassinate all of your citizens via feeding them carcinogenic laced GMO foodstuffs! And we want to destroy your automotive industry!

Muahahahhaha

Bow to your evil American overlords!

[Deleted]

Death to TTIP

Noone can tell me they thought everything was fine with how secretive that was handled. You don't hide it like that if you don't have something to hide.

I wholeheartedly despise politicians since they sell those they are supposed to lead and protect for personal gain. Fucking bastards.

[Ravenblade]

Been on the signatory list on the biggest German campaigner against TTIP since quite the beginning. In general I used to be fairly pro-trade considering that I am living in a country which benefited heavily from free trade pacts so far. However something struck me as odd: for all their initiatives pro-transparency the TTIP has been shrouded under the most darkest clouds of secrecy. It's only due to the pressure from NGOs that they carefully lifted the shroud. In the beginning it would happen that you were allowed only a certain time under the supervision of security-personnel-assisted figures like Karel Gucht to take a glimpse. The biggest issue I take isn't even gene-food or similar food-based antics but the fact that companies would stand above entire countries now, sovereignty being reduced to liability, do these people not know that this is ammunition for anti-globalist factions from left and right, especially right, these days? The entire time it also felt like that the EU of all felt like bowing to the US-lobbyists at every turn possible because it seemed to be a good way to do away with 'silly EU bureaucracy and regulations' from another angle, like some people in the EU felt like the only way to get their way is to hammer this treaty through behind closed doors and the backs of every single institution in the EU. You will have a hard time refuting people's arguments about preconceptions about the EU as an institution. This is what it has come to: That I have come to agree with these people. At least on this issue.

[JohnBrown1917]

Who would have known it'd be bad for consumers, a total surprise.

[Strangebrew]

Well, Sueddeutsche, ARD and WRD are major news outlets here. You can't spread it much further in Germany than they do. I am confident that Norway's news agencies will pick up on this, see the Guardian link (which sounds just as bad as the German ones, albeit they focus on other aspects... it's all rotten if you ask me).

While you got a point, neither VG or Dagbladet(our biggest news outlets) don't report on it, at all.
We have had quite the amount of information on it for a while now, huge changes that will affect entire Europa, including Norway whom isn't even a part of EU.

They should be reporting on it, just anything.
But we've had what, maybe 1 article that just said "this thing is a thing"

I don't know the reasonings, maybe they just don't think it gives enough clicks, who knows? But i absolutely think the situation we are inn right now, and the path we are heading down is dangerous and like you said, rotten.

Maybe "think" is the wrong word here, the correct thing to say would be it is

[JohnBrown1917]

Consumer protection is one of the few things the EU does well. I sincerely hope they keep doing it well.

Thankfully, all our left-wing parties(excluding labour, for those who still views them as left-wing) have come out against it.

[Deleted]

TTIP is a horrible idea for Europe and I am definitely against it.
I really hope our (Austrian) politicians will be reasonable enough to not sign it.