The end of Obamacare...

[Orlong]

Why can't the US just go single payer? You pay for Fire and Police via general taxation, health care should be no different.

You should not have to notify any providers or any insane bullshit. You just pay general taxes and have health care provided by the government as its their duty to do so. Private health care can still exist so the super rich or those on employment plans that offer it can get the extra care they provide (usually faster service etc).

Fire service isnt funded through taxes in most places. Only very large cities. In fact if you dont pay your individual fire fee they will let your house burn to the ground and watch to make sure it doesnt spread to another home that did pay the fee.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011...r-75-fee-again

SOUTH FULTON, Tenn. -- Firefighters stood by and watched a Tennessee house burn to the ground earlier this week because the homeowners didn't pay the annual subscription fee for fire service.

"You could look out my mom's trailer and see the trucks sitting at a distance," Vicky Bell, the homeowner, said.


For Bell, that sight was almost as disturbing as the fire itself.
"We just wished we could've gotten more out," she said.

It's the second time in two years firefighters in the area have watched a house burn because of unpaid fees. Last year, Gene Cranick of Obion County and his family lost all of their possessions in a house fire, along with three dogs and a cat, because the fire fee wasn't paid.

Of course you could also purchase home owners insurance to protect against fires, but I guess we should all chip in for that too through taxes

[akris15]

Fire service isnt funded through taxes in most places. Only very large cities. In fact if you dont pay your individual fire fee they will let your house burn to the ground and watch to make sure it doesnt spread to another home that did pay the fee.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011...r-75-fee-again



Of course you could also purchase home owners insurance to protect against fires, but I guess we should all chip in for that too through taxes

You need to be very cautious with this Line of argument and thinking. You are indirectly advocating that if people get sick or have an accident that doctors go against their most sacred of oaths and let the person suffer and or die because they cannot pay for it.

[khalltusk]

Fire service isnt funded through taxes in most places. Only very large cities. In fact if you dont pay your individual fire fee they will let your house burn to the ground and watch to make sure it doesnt spread to another home that did pay the fee.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011...r-75-fee-again



Of course you could also purchase home owners insurance to protect against fires, but I guess we should all chip in for that too through taxes

Holy shit and I thought the US had fire service paid for by taxes. That shit is utterly crazy.

I pay my taxes here in the UK which pays for the Police/fire service and obviously NHS/ambulance services. This also pays for dentists too for the most part on NHS, (as a working adult I normally pay for a yearly dental check up which is £20, not needed any braces fillings or tooth removals I know super lucky right?).

I've never needed the fire service, or ambulance service. I have once called the police to report a crime. Those services I expect to be there and paid for by my taxes. As thats what a government is supposed to be doing! Providing the core services while things like TV/broadband mortgages etc are done by the free market.

But that story is crazy, XD thanks for the chuckles.

[zenkai]

a nice wel argued argument /Sarcasm

If your so good at math then can you explain how the ACU fucked up the already fucked up US healthcare system? Because for somebody claiming that others are bad at math your argument is clearly lacking in math.

If their where any horror stories then that would have already been public, the only horror stories out their are BS right wing stories that got debunked on the same day (or day after). People complaining about how they used to have wonderful insurance that didn't really cover anything because of out of pocket expenses and/or limits.

This is why facebook is filtering out right wing news,

There are plenty of horror stories and I have one of my own, just because you chose to ignore to read anything negative about Obamacare doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Annoying]

Car insurance is not mandatory in some states.

It's also not required when buying a car. You don't even have to register a car. You also don't need a license to drive a car. You can't drive an unregistered/uninsured car on public roads, and you can't drive on public roads without a license, but if you buy a track car and whoever owns the private land you're driving it on is OK with you not having a license, then you don't need those things.

There are plenty of horror stories and I have one of my own, just because you chose to ignore to read anything negative about Obamacare doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I've actually swapped stances somewhat about the outcome. I had some confirmation bias due to my state being one of a very small few that saw their premiums decrease under the ACA, as can be seen here (-12%):
http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-b...-marketplaces/

That, of course, has changed. We had a +7% in 2015-2016 (no map, but raw data):
http://kff.org/health-reform/fact-sh...-marketplaces/

I predict it will get worse. And it's also worth mentioning that it's not directly the ACA, but rather the insurers and their need for profit increases that caused this. But make no mistake, even with that statement. I actually did (and still do) have some pretty wonderful insurance, and it has gotten more expensive. I understand @ati87 s argument about those who had really cheap, but worthless plans. They existed, and didn't cover enough to actually help someone if an issue happened. Yeah, some of those people complained about their massive rate hikes. But there are people with legitimate plans (hint, the average person on a healthcare plan) who saw raises in premiums beyond what was expected an normal for yearly premium hikes.

I don't have a catch-all solution. Yeah, expanding medicare to cover everyone would probably result in average costs going down for the regular person (versus current deductibles and premiums), but that's realistically not going to happen. There's a chunk of the legislative branch that's simply not interested in how much our premiums are and how many people are covered under whatever healthcare system we currently have.

[ati87]

It's also not required when buying a car. You don't even have to register a car. You also don't need a license to drive a car. You can't drive an unregistered/uninsured car on public roads, and you can't drive on public roads without a license, but if you buy a track car and whoever owns the private land you're driving it on is OK with you not having a license, then you don't need those things.

I've actually swapped stances somewhat about the outcome. I had some confirmation bias due to my state being one of a very small few that saw their premiums decrease under the ACA, as can be seen here (-12%):
http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-b...-marketplaces/

That, of course, has changed. We had a +7% in 2015-2016 (no map, but raw data):
http://kff.org/health-reform/fact-sh...-marketplaces/

I predict it will get worse. And it's also worth mentioning that it's not directly the ACA, but rather the insurers and their need for profit increases that caused this. But make no mistake, even with that statement. I actually did (and still do) have some pretty wonderful insurance, and it has gotten more expensive. I understand @ati87 s argument about those who had really cheap, but worthless plans. They existed, and didn't cover enough to actually help someone if an issue happened. Yeah, some of those people complained about their massive rate hikes. But there are people with legitimate plans (hint, the average person on a healthcare plan) who saw raises in premiums beyond what was expected an normal for yearly premium hikes.

I don't have a catch-all solution. Yeah, expanding medicare to cover everyone would probably result in average costs going down for the regular person (versus current deductibles and premiums), but that's realistically not going to happen. There's a chunk of the legislative branch that's simply not interested in how much our premiums are and how many people are covered under whatever healthcare system we currently have.

Please come up with actual examples that didn't get discredited the day after fox news aired their ''breaking'' news. Up to this point the only stuff I've seen are the following:
A) Person had a shit insurance that didn't cover anything and they only paid money to the insurance company while having practically zero coverage
b) That person didn't actually make use of everything ACA offered and they could get cheaper and better plans if they put in small amount of effort which they should since it's your health we are talking about.

SO yea when people are talking about horror stories I usually call BS because they get discredited every single time

Maybe you should change health-insurance (you know use the ACA) if yours become to/more expensive. The whole benefit for having a open market is that you can change every year which you should if you want to reduce cost. Part of it may be a cultural thing that hasn't really gotten threw yet (will be in a few years) but as long as you aren't using every options then you will always get screwed.

There are plenty of horror stories and I have one of my own, just because you chose to ignore to read anything negative about Obamacare doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You must be really famous if you're story is actually true....care to show your 5 mins of fame tv add or interview?

---------------

Fox news, every conservative news-outlet and right wing politicians tried to take down ACA/Obamacare since 2008 (deathpannels). If their was actual merit to their BS claims then that person would have been on the news 24/7 and he would have been the next Joe the Plumber.

[zenkai]

Please come up with actual examples that didn't get discredited the day after fox news aired their ''breaking'' news. Up to this point the only stuff I've seen are the following:
A) Person had a shit insurance that didn't cover anything and they only paid money to the insurance company while having practically zero coverage
b) That person didn't actually make use of everything ACA offered and they could get cheaper and better plans if they put in small amount of effort which they should since it's your health we are talking about.

SO yea when people are talking about horror stories I usually call BS because they get discredited every single time

Maybe you should change health-insurance (you know use the ACA) if yours become to/more expensive. The whole benefit for having a open market is that you can change every year which you should if you want to reduce cost. Part of it may be a cultural thing that hasn't really gotten threw yet (will be in a few years) but as long as you aren't using every options then you will always get screwed.



You must be really famous if you're story is actually true....care to show your 5 mins of fame tv add or interview?

---------------

Fox news, every conservative news-outlet and right wing politicians tried to take down ACA/Obamacare since 2008 (deathpannels). If their was actual merit to their BS claims then that person would have been on the news 24/7 and he would have been the next Joe the Plumber.

Why should I bother? you don't care about facts, you are set up in a biased position, look at your response. You don't care about truths, you care about what agrees with your opinion. Go ahead and believe obamacare is all sunshine and rainbows and only bad things about it are because of the evil republicans.

[ati87]

Why should I bother? you don't care about facts, you are set up in a biased position, look at your response. You don't care about truths, you care about what agrees with your opinion. Go ahead and believe obamacare is all sunshine and rainbows and only bad things about it are because of the evil republicans.

So instead of disproving my point you;r argument is something like what Sarah Palin would say when pressed...completly avoiding the point and personal attacks.

I actually care about truth, it's just that I don't believe in the whole ''gut'' feeling argument most right wing policies believers do. If even a fraction of your republican ''truth'' was actually true the world would have ended 20 years ago.

Republican healthcare policy is what actually? Vague promises of repeal and maybe replace... Trumps doesn't have a actual plan only broad statements but even his statements is more then what the Republican party has offered in 8 years.

[melodramocracy]

Treat you as a human being.. maybe?

Where's the profit in that?

[zenkai]

So instead of disproving my point you;r argument is something like what Sarah Palin would say when pressed...completly avoiding the point and personal attacks.

I actually care about truth, it's just that I don't believe in the whole ''gut'' feeling argument most right wing policies believers do. If even a fraction of your republican ''truth'' was actually true the world would have ended 20 years ago.

Republican healthcare policy is what actually? Vague promises of repeal and maybe replace... Trumps doesn't have a actual plan only broad statements but even his statements is more then what the Republican party has offered in 8 years.

News flash, I'm not a republican, keep insulting them all you want, I don't care, I detest Republicans just as much as Democrats.

[Vago]

Its not broken, its just not designed to help people... Its designed to make money.

They made money via taking money from low risk people (ie: young healthy people), and never really paying out much because said low risk people rarely needed medical treatment for anything apart from uncommon things like accidents, emergencies, sudden illnesses, etc.

Now they are forced to sell insurance to high risk people, when previously they either just outright didn't sell to those people or sold insurance at vastly inflated prices. People such as the disabled, ailing, chronically ill, etc. People who they have to pay out for all the time.

The Republican solution is to just let those people die and have everyone else invest in an HSA.

With the Democratic solution being what? People that actually pay for the insurance, given to others, can no longer afford to go to the doctor. That means more sick days, more days missed work until finally you are the one someone else is paying for. After that happens long enough, who's paying for it?

[I Push Buttons]

With the Democratic solution being what? People that actually pay for the insurance, given to others, can no longer afford to go to the doctor. That means more sick days, more days missed work until finally you are the one someone else is paying for. After that happens long enough, who's paying for it?

I am not sure if you are aware, friend, but what you are describing is how it used to be... Obamacare is not people paying for other people's insurance (fully). That has already existed for quite some time. You may have heard of those programs, medicare for the elderly, medicaid for the low-income/disabled... And that was just the publicly funded insurance...

There were also tens of millions of people WHO DIDN'T HAVE INSURANCE. Once again, I guess you aren't aware of the law in this country, but hospitals have to treat people who come in with life threatening injuries, regardless of whether they pay or not... Well even non-profit hospitals have to do something to cover the cost of treating those people, they can't simply write it off. You know how they cover that cost? Oh yeah, they charge the people who actually can pay (or more accurately for most cases, their insurance companies) more money for services provided.

ACA subsidized people buying their own insurance from an insurance company. And the people who can get that subsidy? Mostly well-off (well-enough-off really) people who otherwise don't have employer provided health care... The poor freeloaders that you seem to hate, those that fall into the so-called "medicaid gap" cannot get an ACA subsidy to buy their own insurance... They, like they have been doing for decades, either get medicaid or simply don't have insurance and are poor enough that they don't have to pay the penalty.

---

The Democrat solutions isn't a set thing, as Democrats disagree on what should be done, but one of the more prominent suggestions is single payer... IE no more insurance companies, just one provider of insurance, the government, that covers everyone in the country.

[Zan15]

Fire service isnt funded through taxes in most places. Only very large cities. In fact if you dont pay your individual fire fee they will let your house burn to the ground and watch to make sure it doesnt spread to another home that did pay the fee.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011...r-75-fee-again



Of course you could also purchase home owners insurance to protect against fires, but I guess we should all chip in for that too through taxes

you already do, its called govt flood insurance....

Not sure where you are from but everywhere is funded through either the state, city or town in one way or another.


no one has a problem with being forced to get car insurance oddly enough.

[Stop Pretending]

Taxation is not a forced expense. It's a power granted by the Constitution.

Taxation based on non compliance. Taxation is just a cute word for fine. Try being less obtuse.