Captain America, the first paladin

[Alvito]

Steve stood up for his friend who was in trouble, even though it meant the whole world turning on him.

That's straight up paladin material right there.

That is doing what you want not what is right. He is a hypocrite. He calls people out on their actions all the time then when it is time for him to do the right thing all of a sudden it is do as I say not as I do. He is the villain of the movie.

[Gallahadd]

Yeah... No. Iron man is the hypocrite, he spent the whole film saying people should do what the law says, and not be vigilantes.

Then the MOMENT it becomes important to him, the SECOND that he has any emotional investment in the issue, he goes off on his own and does what he wants, not what the law says.

Cappy toed the line the whole way through. Bucky was under HYDRA control, he's not responsible for the shit he did and even if he IS, Tony has just as much if not more blood on his hands. He has no right to take the moral high ground.

[Teleros]

Cappy toed the line the whole way through. Bucky was under HYDRA control, he's not responsible for the shit he did

I can buy that Bucky is not responsible because of brainwashing or mind control or whatever... but in that case Captain America is being extremely irresponsible by letting him loose without first breaking that mind control (or whatever). "First do no harm" seems like a sensible principle to follow in this scenario, no?

Bucky may be an innocent victim in all this, but the body he's in happens to be that of a killing machine under the control of the Evil Legion of Evilitude. Sometimes the most moral thing to do (or if you prefer, least immoral thing to do) is to have an individual suffer so that many more people don't.

Edit: Oh and if you're uncertain, at least disconnect or disable the blasted metal arm before trying him out.

[Gallahadd]

That would have been the best case scenario. It's one Cappy and Bucky were good with (just look at the CW post credit scene).

The problem is that was never an option. Everyone was so set on him as the villain they just wanted to lock him up at best, kill him at worst.

Also worth noting, with HYDRA destroyed, the mind control was thought to be gone. It's only when Zemo recovered that book with the codes in that it became a problem again.

[Teleros]

Also worth noting, with HYDRA destroyed, the mind control was thought to be gone.

Dunno what that has to do with the mind control bit TBH.

/headdesk

[Gallahadd]

Because hydra controlled him, if HYDRA is gone there's no one there to activate him. The Mind Control isn't a permanent thing, he is activated, given a task and then once that task is complete the control starts to wear off.

HYDRA got around that by freezing him before the control could wear off, then reactivating while he thawed. With them gone and the control manuals thought to be lost, once it wore off he was himself again, as we saw for the majority of the film. It was only once Team Stark did exactly what Zemo wanted them to do and basically handed Bucky over to him that he was activated again.

Now that Zemo is locked up and the manual out of commission, Bucky is far safer.

Unless another manual survived...

[PetersenIV]

has there ever been a hero more virtuous? More straight and true?

Superman was a pretty good paragon of virtue.

[Schattenlied]

Cap maybe a PROT pala.
While Retribution is definitely Batman

Batman has a thing against killing people most of the time, Ret is more like Dredd, or the Punisher with a greatsword.

[Teleros]

Because hydra controlled him, if HYDRA is gone there's no one there to activate him. The Mind Control isn't a permanent thing, he is activated, given a task and then once that task is complete the control starts to wear off.

Sounds more like the mind control is permanent, but buried somewhere in his brain until it's activated.

[Gallahadd]

The seed is permanent yes, but if no one ever activates it, it'll lie dormant forever.

[Bartumus22]

The Hydra storyline is in no way canon. It's pretty much a one-off. Captain America is basically Marvels Superman. They both beat the crap out of Hitler; other than the stupid Ultimate universe, Captain America is pretty much incorruptible. And yes, you can stand against corrupt politicans and still be lawful good- in D&D Paladins have the authority to overthrow kings, if they are corrupt.

[Snegovik]

Batman has a thing against killing people most of the time, Ret is more like Dredd, or the Punisher with a greatsword.

Well younger batman, when he gets older, he does kill Joker . But ya u right Dredd kinda fits Ret better, Dredd it is then )

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I can buy that Bucky is not responsible because of brainwashing or mind control or whatever... but in that case Captain America is being extremely irresponsible by letting him loose without first breaking that mind control (or whatever). "First do no harm" seems like a sensible principle to follow in this scenario, no?

Bucky may be an innocent victim in all this, but the body he's in happens to be that of a killing machine under the control of the Evil Legion of Evilitude. Sometimes the most moral thing to do (or if you prefer, least immoral thing to do) is to have an individual suffer so that many more people don't.

Edit: Oh and if you're uncertain, at least disconnect or disable the blasted metal arm before trying him out.

Yeah that was a judgment call. On the one hand he's still vulnerable. On the other hand he knows more about their opponent than anyone (having helped train them). If all the avengers were on board, they could probably play it safer with Bucky. Under the circumstances, it's more of an "all hands on deck" situation.

[Arrashi]

But if captain america is nazi.....holy shit paladins hail hydra !!!!

[Nurvus]

Well he "was" once the Lawful Good Type. He isn't anymore. But he is still very close to a Paladin-Like-Character.

Ignoring the whole Hydra thing currently ofc.

But that's probably why I like the Lawful Good/Neutral Archetype like Captain America or Judge Dredd.

Yes, I am that guy. I don't care. :P

Captain America is still Lawful Good.
In that sense, it's not what you do, but what you believe in and how that relates to what you're doing that truly matters, although a lot of games out there, namely DnD, use some really strange/stupid logic to determine what causes a character to shift alignment, and what doesn't.

Captain america believes he's doing the right thing for the innocent the whole way. He understands why others disagree with him, but he believes it to be a misunderstanding that he can't yet clear up without risking the life of the person he's trying to save, so he prioritizes saving, and just cannot accept not doing what is right by someone he knows/hopes is innocent (of what others accuse him).

He might even be wrong the whole way, and actually end up helping an evil guy, but if he's not aware of that while helping him, it doesn't change what he is.

[apepi]

So Tirion is basically Captain America?

And Bolvar is Winter Soldier.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

So Tirion is basically Captain America?

And Bolvar is Winter Soldier.

/10 characters