Bernie/Clinton makes further deal - Clinton will push for "Public Option" Healthcare

[NineSpine]

Who cares about hes person? He could be an evil Hitler supporting bigot for all we know. As long as these things stay in hes personal life and dont reflect on hes presidency, why would that matter? Its funny how most attacks on Trump are about hes person, how hes a racist, how hes a bad businessman, how hes anti semitic. But thats completely meaningless. Hillary on the other hand is a blatant flip flopping liar. Shes corrupt and easily bought. In the end, it comes down to how well either can do their jobs.

He has flip flopped on virtually every issue on the planet as well. He said he opposed the Iraq war, but he supported it. He said he was pro-choice, but now he's pro-life. He said he was for torture and then walked that back. He switched position on Israel-Palestine. In his book, he argued for gun control. Now he opposes it. It's like this on nearly every issue on the planet.

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It would be nieve to think she was the sole reason that war took place.

Considering that Obama opposed intervention and she convinced him to change his mind, it's extremely reasonable to place the blame at her feet, and Obama's, but certainly her's.

[xChurch]

Considering that Obama opposed intervention and she convinced him to change his mind, it's extremely reasonable to place the blame at her feet, and Obama's, but certainly her's.

Considering it was a NATO led action, you're going to have a hard to justifying laying most of the blame on a single person. I'm not saying it's not a mark against her (I have a distaste for her overly hawkish nature as well) but it's unfair to act like she alone was the main driver of it.

[NineSpine]

Considering it was a NATO led action, you're going to have a hard to justifying laying most of the blame on a single person. I'm not saying it's not a mark against her (I have a distaste for her overly hawkish nature as well) but it's unfair to act like she alone was the main driver of it.

Do you know who pulled Britain and France into supporting the NATO action? That's right: Hillary Clinton. This was a major pet project for her. She was extremely strong and forceful in getting this to happen. You are acting like the Secretary of State of the United States of America is some worthless appendage that can't possibly effect anything. Get real. She made a totally shit decision. Fucking sycophants.

[WiggleTillFriday]

I can see the hatred for trump. I can understand why. Tell me what is so great about Hillary.

[Korlok]

Who cares about hes person? He could be an evil Hitler supporting bigot for all we know. As long as these things stay in hes personal life and dont reflect on hes presidency, why would that matter? Its funny how most attacks on Trump are about hes person, how hes a racist, how hes a bad businessman, how hes anti semitic. But thats completely meaningless. Hillary on the other hand is a blatant flip flopping liar. Shes corrupt and easily bought. In the end, it comes down to how well either can do their jobs.

So, you admit that their ability to do the job is what matters?
Would you agree that experience would help with this knowledge?
Of the two candidates being discussed, which of them has ANY experience being in politics and running the country?

[NineSpine]

I can see the hatred for trump. I can understand why. Tell me what is so great about Hillary.

She has a D next to her name, a vagina, and she is married to a right wing president from the 90s that some people have convinced themselves was a liberal.

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So, you admit that their ability to do the job is what matters?
Would you agree that experience would help with this knowledge?
Of the two candidates being discussed, which of them has ANY experience being in politics and running the country?

Experience making completely garbage decisions isn't the strongest argument.

[apepi]

The thing is, I don't care how much she will 'push' for them, it does not matter. She does not care about these goals and will not actually push for them.

[NineSpine]

The thing is, I don't care how much she will 'push' for them, it does not matter. She does not care about these goals and will not actually push for them.

It's almost as if she comes from a wing of the Democratic Party that thinks they should lie to win elections and then use their actual power to secure donations from corporate interests, so that their lie-filled campaigns have financial backing. Crazy!

[xChurch]

Do you know who pulled Britain and France into supporting the NATO action? That's right: Hillary Clinton. This was a major pet project for her. She was extremely strong and forceful in getting this to happen. You are acting like the Secretary of State of the United States of America is some worthless appendage that can't possibly effect anything. Get real. She made a totally shit decision. Fucking sycophants.

Sec of State is an influential position but so much so that they can single handedly get NATO on board for such a problematic invasion seems a stretch. Obviously other parties saw the point in doing it since it was looking like it would be a humanitarian crisis if they didn't act. Sure it turned out even worse than it was prior but we also don't know what the other result would have been. Perhaps had we not helpped the rebels it would have just become Syria 2.0.

It's almost as if she comes from a wing of the Democratic Party that thinks they should lie to win elections and then use their actual power to secure donations from corporate interests, so that their lie-filled campaigns have financial backing. Crazy!

I think you mean politics in general. She is not alone in how she approaches winning elections on either side of the aisle.

[NineSpine]

Sec of State is an influential position but so much so that they can single handedly get NATO on board for such a problematic invasion seems a stretch. Obviously other parties saw the point in doing it since it was looking like it would be a humanitarian crisis if they didn't act. Sure it turned out even worse than it was prior but we also don't know what the other result would have been. Perhaps had we not helpped the rebels it would have just become Syria 2.0.

Yes, the Secretary of State absolutely has the power to do that, especially when we know the facts about this situation and we know she sweet-talked Britain and France into getting on board.

Libya is a complete, unmitigated disaster.

[Korlok]

She has a D next to her name, a vagina, and she is married to a right wing president from the 90s that some people have convinced themselves was a liberal.

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Experience making completely garbage decisions isn't the strongest argument.

Only trying to point out the silliness of an argument for Trump over Hillary when we're talking about actually doing the job.
I could care less either way personally. This country is poised for a massive fall, like all empires once they get too big for their britches.
I really don't think anyone can stop it or save us anymore.

[NineSpine]

I think you mean politics in general. She is not alone in how she approaches winning elections on either side of the aisle.

I'm not quite sure how saying she is from a "wing" of the party made you think I was saying she is alone. Her husband was certainly the one that ushered that wing to the dominant position in the party though.

The Republicans actually DON'T do that. Their policies already align with the corporate interests, so they can be up front about it.

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Only trying to point out the silliness of an argument for Trump over Hillary when we're talking about actually doing the job.
I could care less either way personally. This country is poised for a massive fall, like all empires once they get too big for their britches.
I really don't think anyone can stop it or save us anymore.

Not to get all historian on you, but the U.S. has never been an empire. Empire describes a very specific method of exerting power, not just exerting power itself, and the U.S. has chosen other means.

[alexw]

She is a war monger who has supported or been involved in every single military intervention the United States has become involved in for at least 25 years, and the wing of the party she represents (the DLC) is the wing that threw economic liberalism under the bus in order to secure funding from big moneyed interests, which was the process by which the deregulation that caused the housing collapse came to be.

IMO they threw liberalism under the bus because the boomer generation took power and they all voted for "screw you I got mine" Reagan and his successors. I.e They had no choice if democrats were ever going to get elected.

Its turning the other way now though as the boomers are slowly dying off so we should see a return to the greatest generation style of economic liberalism.

[Korlok]

I'm not quite sure how saying she is from a "wing" of the party made you think I was saying she is alone. Her husband was certainly the one that ushered that wing to the dominant position in the party though.

The Republicans actually DON'T do that. Their policies already align with the corporate interests, so they can be up front about it.

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Not to get all historian on you, but the U.S. has never been an empire. Empire describes a very specific method of exerting power, not just exerting power itself, and the U.S. has chosen other means.

Imperial in scope, if you will then. We are really too big, and refuse to deal with the intrinsic problems that will tear us apart eventually.
Too much fragmentation, too much polarization.
I have no hope.

Just look at every thread on american politics that crops up on these forums as a good example. There are two blatantly obvious "sides", and almost nobody on either side of the line will get over their stubborn bias long enough to even LISTEN to the other side. They hear, but have already made up their minds.

[Barnabas]

More nonsense. Just repeal aca already and give us a credit to buy insurance. Anything else is ridiculous. Government currently pays almost 11k usd per person and private insurance will take on people with the same options for 6k. You get more doctors and more coverage. Government again thinking they know what is best when they do not.

[May90]

Clinton doesn't support social measures: "She is a corporate shill, she doesn't care about simple folks!"
Clinton supports social measures: "She is just dishonest and does it to gain more votes!"

[The Penguin]

Hey I'm cool with a public option or any sort of real reform. As long as when they repeal ACA finally, we let Paul Ryan walk up the stairs with a smug grin on his face and in possession of a ridiculously oversized hammer like Pelosi did when she equated it to the Civil Rights movement (and insulted the spirit of the movement concurrently), or let Trump say "Mr. Obama, your fired." I'm good with anything.

Never voting Democrat again till this crap law is dead, and that's a shame as there's some decent Democrats running for the House and Senate soonish. So really, anything that reduces Obama's signature legislation to glorified toilet paper and with as much contempt as possible I am good with. They passed it in a rush because they were scared of losing power. All hopes the Democrat party continues to suffer for this for years to come, starting with a Trump Presidency.

But really it's their own damned fault. As Ragnaros would of say, "Justice will be met indeed!"

[HillaryJtrump]

She will say anything to get in office.

[xChurch]

I'm not quite sure how saying she is from a "wing" of the party made you think I was saying she is alone. Her husband was certainly the one that ushered that wing to the dominant position in the party though.

The Republicans actually DON'T do that. Their policies already align with the corporate interests, so they can be up front about it.

Except being aligned with corporate interests pretty much demands that they lie meaning Republicans do lie to fill their coffers just like the democrats do (arguable worse than they do). Climate change, free trade, national security, all areas where Republicans have lied to benifit their corporate donors.

[The Penguin]

She will say anything to get in office.

Unfortunately that's about the size of it. She can't condemn the Dallas shooting as she is actually are on record "kissing"* #BLM's you know what. But hey, whatever a girl's gotta do to get what she wants is kosher with her. I merely find it strange that she implied such behaviors were lewd and unprofessional when she witch-hunted Monica Lewinsky.

Edit:

*- said word could of been several far worse and still be completely accurate, but for the sake of the easily triggered I will leave it at "kissing".

People can use their imaginations. It's more fun that way! :-)