[WINDWALKER] 7.X Discussion thread

[Babylonius]

what a lame excuse, why not let us decide. we just needed info backed up with numbers and then each one can decide properly what is best (why do we need theorycrafting otherwise)

"potential"? a little vast field, that's why exist the theorycrafting to reduce the possibilities and determine the situation/criteria where is better

i know its must be difficult, and i thank all you guys that in someway helped the comunity, what doesn't help in anyway is your answer mate.

peace

p.s. hard laughs with the weather analogy

I've always told people Serenity can be better. We have to details articles devoted to using Serenity. I used Serenity this week because I wanted to see how well i can do. Next week I'll go WDP and see. I'm not good with Serenity, im not comfortable with it and I don't like the enormous attention to timers it requires.

If you've been paying attention or involved in the discussion about Serenity at all, beyond reading this one comment about what I say, you would see that I tell people to try it, but just make them aware of its difficulty and relatively no margin of error. But I appreciate your judgement of me based on someone else's interpretation of what I've said.

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A lot of testing and gold. I consistently had higher damage with Old War than Deadly Grace. Especially on burst openers I consistently reached 800-900k burst almost 1 mill a few times with Old War. With Deadly Grace I got around 700-800k.

You didn't need to spend the gold, we know Old War is better. My question is why you said Old War is better for aserenity while Deadly Grace is better for WDP? I've not seen anything to suggest that.

[Staggered]

Currently 5/7H, I've been SEF for all fights just to get experience and learn them. But next reset I will be going Serenity.

[Deleted]

I've always told people Serenity can be better. We have to details articles devoted to using Serenity. I used Serenity this week because I wanted to see how well i can do. Next week I'll go WDP and see. I'm not good with Serenity, im not comfortable with it and I don't like the enormous attention to timers it requires.

If you've been paying attention or involved in the discussion about Serenity at all, beyond reading this one comment about what I say, you would see that I tell people to try it, but just make them aware of its difficulty and relatively no margin of error. But I appreciate your judgement of me based on someone else's interpretation of what I've said.

first, it was never my intention to judge you (but i can judge your work), even more so when i recognize your contribution to the spec.

second, I thought the comment added nothing to the conversation and only discourages those who may have different opinions or criticism, to participate. so I replied to the comment .

his surprise, is the surprise of many in this forum , the fact that serenity is quite feasible or better than wdp for single target ( we'll see more logs) .

always thoughted (you make reference to this in wtw i think) which could mean an increase in dps in 2-5 adds fight, but that was all. never in single target fight like nythrenda.

[Soulwell]

first, it was never my intention to judge you (but i can judge your work), even more so when i recognize your contribution to the spec.

second, I thought the comment added nothing to the conversation and only discourages those who may have different opinions or criticism, to participate. so I replied to the comment .

his surprise, is the surprise of many in this forum , the fact that serenity is quite feasible or better than wdp for single target ( we'll see more logs) .

always thoughted (you make reference to this in wtw i think) which could mean an increase in dps in 2-5 adds fight, but that was all. never in single target fight like nythrenda.

Literally the only thing you're doing is taking shots for no apparent reason at the only person that theorycrafts/maintains an amazing website just because he feels like helping others. The only thing you've contributed was saying dg is better with sef and old war with serenity while providing absolutely nothing proving your statement other than you tested it.

[Carthh]

I was switching back and forth between Serenity and SEF last night and after clearing Heroic, I feel like the only fight SEF felt good on was Il'gynoth. Even then on heroic it was more meter padding than anything. Unfortunately there's just no fights with long living multiple stacked adds. Cenarius you could maybe use SEF, but using Serenity on both stacked adds felt much better to me. On Il and Ele, the adds were basically dead by the time I sent out my clones and got my SCK stacks up, we just can't stack up with the burst AOE dps like some other classes right now. BUT that's not a bad thing, sustained aoe damage is absolutely insane on multiple adds that live longer than 10 seconds and after last night I'd argue our single target damage is easily upper middle of the pack.

I'm sure lots of stuff will change on Mythic, but at the moment I feel like Serenity is the best choice for all the fights for Heroic/Normal. As it was mentioned multiple times before though, do not use Serenity if you haven't practiced it. Before you go into raid with Serenity do what I did all day yesterday. Go straight to that punching bag in the class hall and take 10 minutes to read atleast the Serenity "Quick" Guide on WtW and spend the next 30 minutes rotating with Serenity. Practice your openers, and practice middle of fights when Serenity comes off cooldown and other abilities are on cooldown so you know what abilities to delay when and how long. Please do not use Serenity until you read and understand this: http://www.walkingthewind.com/2016/0...y-quick-guide/

[Babylonius]

Literally the only thing you're doing is taking shots for no apparent reason at the only person that theorycrafts/maintains an amazing website just because he feels like helping others. The only thing you've contributed was saying dg is better with sef and old war with serenity while providing absolutely nothing proving your statement other than you tested it.

For the record, I don't think he was intentionally taking a dig at me in either of his comments. More a dig at what the other user said when he misinterpreted what I had been telling people for weeks. I am also not the only person but have help from Pandanaconda and Ruhye who do most of the brainwork.

[Deleted]

Alright lads. IM Brm as my main spec but im trying to learn WW as buest i can, im doing alright too, however i do need help on the optimal opener, could anybody help me out please? im using chi wave, Eny Brew, Combo, dragon thingy punch. Cheers.

[Quickpaw]

Alright lads. IM Brm as my main spec but im trying to learn WW as buest i can, im doing alright too, however i do need help on the optimal opener, could anybody help me out please? im using chi wave, Eny Brew, Combo, dragon thingy punch. Cheers.

It's kinda like you just came here without even looking at the first page of this thread for the very detailed guide. Shocker.

[Oziemaster]

I've always told people Serenity can be better. We have to details articles devoted to using Serenity. I used Serenity this week because I wanted to see how well i can do. Next week I'll go WDP and see. I'm not good with Serenity, im not comfortable with it and I don't like the enormous attention to timers it requires.

If you've been paying attention or involved in the discussion about Serenity at all, beyond reading this one comment about what I say, you would see that I tell people to try it, but just make them aware of its difficulty and relatively no margin of error. But I appreciate your judgement of me based on someone else's interpretation of what I've said.

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You didn't need to spend the gold, we know Old War is better. My question is why you said Old War is better for aserenity while Deadly Grace is better for WDP? I've not seen anything to suggest that.

When using Old War during SEF I got less damage out of it than using it with Serenity. And deadly grace did more damage with SEF. Don't know what the differences are between the 2. That's just how it was to me.

[Soulwell]

When using Old War during SEF I got less damage out of it than using it with Serenity. And deadly grace did more damage with SEF. Don't know what the differences are between the 2. That's just how it was to me.

My guess is it's because if you have any downtime old war instantly devalues

[Juliansfist]

WOAH! RJW received a big nerf and now costs 1 chi.

[Baynz]

But, because of the latest nerf to SotW You want to skip it in Your AoE rotation and quickly buff SCK stacks and spam it as often as possible.

As You are already somewhat familiar with WalkingtheWind You should read their theorycrafting post about SCK:
www<dot>walkingthewind<dot>com/2016/08/20/spinning-crane-kick-theorycrafting/

Don't take SotW under consideration, though.

Also -
Are You sure You are using Serenity perfectly? I could suggest going WDP instead.

Thanks for the response.

Re-reading that helped me quite a bit, thanks! I had read it previously, but it now makes more sense after getting more experience with WW.

I didn't know that the SotW nerf was live! I thought all the posts on the forums about it, were about it's impending release. I was expecting to see it in some patch notes... :/

I followed up with Babylonius' post about it here www<dot>walkingthewind<dot>com/2016/09/18/strike-of-the-windlord-nerf/, which gave me some really good insight into it.

In terms of Serenity, I feel like I'm performing better with it, but this is purely anecdotal. I use it on strong aoe pulls, and then on boss fights to make the most of the CD reduction it gives as well as the dmg boost. You're right though, i should parse logs of myself and compare myself with WDP vs Serenity to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

Cheers!

[Staggered]

WOAH! RJW received a big nerf and now costs 1 chi.

What nerf?

[Super Kami Dende]

@Babylonius So I've been using Power Strikes recently as my go to talent for Chi, with the SotW nerf and more focus on SCK do you think changing to EE now would be a good idea.

My biggest annoyance I find with SCK is it's ramp up to get going, with EE could instead start with the 5 chi, BoK 1 target, RSK 2nd target, BoK 3rd target, Tiger palm 4th target and have 3 chi to do a 4 stack SCK within 4 GCD's instead of 5-6?

[Faselol]

Does anyone understand exactly how Potion of the Old War interacts with SEF? I am typically only getting around 1 million to 2 million damage per usage of Old War (~851 ilvl) in Emerald Nightmare, which appears to be incredibly low compared to other melee such as DH/Warrior (5 million to 9 million damage per use). Is there anything we can we can do to maximize damage with Old War? Is Potion of Deadly Grace competitive with Old War? Something seems off about the Old War potion and I'm not sure what it is.

[Oziemaster]

Does anyone understand exactly how Potion of the Old War interacts with SEF? I am typically only getting around 1 million to 2 million damage per usage of Old War (~851 ilvl) in Emerald Nightmare, which appears to be incredibly low compared to other melee such as DH/Warrior (5 million to 9 million damage per use). Is there anything we can we can do to maximize damage with Old War? Is Potion of Deadly Grace competitive with Old War? Something seems off about the Old War potion and I'm not sure what it is.

Potion of Old War is best with Serenity. You will get the most out of it that way. On Heroic Ilgynoth I did 291k DPS (849) our kill time was 4:18 so we killed it pretty fast. On pull I used deadly grace and it did 1.82 million. When we got in for the Eye I used Old War and it did 5.81 million damage for me. SEF for whatever reason just doesn't work well with Old War. And Deadly grace is just straight up not as good as Old War from what I've been seeing.

[Deleted]

Are you guys using serenity in m+ with good results?

[Deleted]

Are you guys using serenity in m+ with good results?

Yes.

Personal experience from a few mythic+ yesterday (up to 7): Serenity and WDP are really close. Serenity seems better to me on bosses, especially on higher mythic+, where fights longer than a minute and a half are more common, so a second use is possible. Or on very short fights on lower mythic+, when that initial boost makes a huge difference. On smaller packs, Serenity seems better, too. The CD reduction and damage boost to FoF is really good there.
But on really big packs, WDP pulls ahead, because with SEF you can gain SCK stacks really fast. And WDP has the advantage of being more consistent on trash, while Serenity gives this huge boost only now and then, and isn't ready for every pull.

Note: I didn't have the 5% boost from the artifact weapon to Serenity and SEF yet, so that would put WDP a little higher in comparison. On small packs and bosses I still think Serenity wins out if used well.

Overall, even after the nerfs we look really good for mythic+. In terms of damage, I was ahead by a very small margin - an enhancer and a beast master were very close. The instant aoe stun, good self healing capabilities (esp. when going CW on the artifact) and Karma, a 15s CD kick and if needed CC were all really good tools to have.

[Babylonius]

@Babylonius So I've been using Power Strikes recently as my go to talent for Chi, with the SotW nerf and more focus on SCK do you think changing to EE now would be a good idea.

My biggest annoyance I find with SCK is it's ramp up to get going, with EE could instead start with the 5 chi, BoK 1 target, RSK 2nd target, BoK 3rd target, Tiger palm 4th target and have 3 chi to do a 4 stack SCK within 4 GCD's instead of 5-6?

If you're going to be focused on building stacks, dont use RSK, it just throws away 1 Chi that could be another target. Energizing Elixir provides the most resources, so learning how to use it at any point is your best bet.

[Soulwell]

Would it be worth it to stop taking traits for tiger palm damage and grab sck or is crosswinds a solid damage increase?