[BREWMASTER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[keqe]

Did RJW actually get a damage along with the duration increase? Or is it a case where it's the same damage but over a longer period of time (which would actually be a nerf). They probably could have increased the CD time as well.

It's DPS isn't nerfed. I don't remember if they buffed the damage too or just the duration. The point of the change is that you don't have to use it on CD to gain full effect.

[Grobovshik]

The energy is a real problem

I hope they will fix it somehow. Im mad as hell because of this.

[Tech614]

Energy issues? People spamming non BoC empowered TPs?

Only did a fast normal clear in NH, but had 0 issues with energy, even with trying out LB.

[Grobovshik]

Energy issues? People spamming non BoC empowered TPs?

Only did a fast normal clear in NH, but had 0 issues with energy, even with trying out LB.

Energy issues existed before 7.2.5, unless you played bad and didnt maximize dps. Now we got less BoC and BoF so its even worse.

[Deleted]

It's DPS isn't nerfed. I don't remember if they buffed the damage too or just the duration. The point of the change is that you don't have to use it on CD to gain full effect.

Damage is almost the same (only 500 less per Non-Crit-Tick) so it's actually a buff in every situation.

[keqe]

Energy issues? People spamming non BoC empowered TPs?

Only did a fast normal clear in NH, but had 0 issues with energy, even with trying out LB.

If you do keg smash->BoS->TP->BoF-BoS->TP.

You use 90 energy in 6 seconds. Repeating that you need 15 energy per second to sustain it.

With 30% haste you have 13 energy per second regeneration.

You will run out of energy unless you afk/uptime issues on boss.


You can easily test this on a dummy. With 31% haste I ran out of energy in about 36 seconds. (Had 30 energy when I had to keg smash).

With 15% haste I didn't have enough energy to use keg smash at 18 seconds.

This is with the "standard" rotation with only empowered TP and keg smash on CD.

[Grobovshik]

Blizzard want us to play HT? Doing sissy damage while purifying sissy damage because isb cap.

[Tech614]

Energy issues existed before 7.2.5, unless you played bad and didnt maximize dps. Now we got less BoC and BoF so its even worse.

Before 7.2.5 if you used a non BoC TP it was a dps loss. There was never energy issues doing "max dps". I'm not 100% sure that remains true but this quote is blatantly false.

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If you do keg smash->BoS->TP->BoF-BoS->TP.

You use 90 energy in 6 seconds. Repeating that you need 15 energy per second to sustain it.

With 30% haste you have 13 energy per second regeneration.

You will run out of energy unless you afk/uptime issues on boss.


You can easily test this on a dummy. With 31% haste I ran out of energy in about 36 seconds. (Had 30 energy when I had to keg smash).

With 15% haste I didn't have enough energy to use keg smash at 18 seconds.

This is with the "standard" rotation with only empowered TP and keg smash on CD.

Average of 94th percentile from the run last night and no energy issues at all.

In fact I'm hitting a dummy right now and have 0 energy issues, it's cutting it close but it's definitely not an issue. Would it be an issue if I stayed GCD capped the entire time? Yep, but that once again will require a non empowered TP which until I see otherwise still seems like a waste of energy to me. 13% haste FWIW.

[Grobovshik]

Average of 94th percentile from the run last night and no energy issues at all.

In fact I'm hitting a dummy right now and have 0 energy issues, it's cutting it close but it's definitely not an issue.

Play better and it will be an issue. 94 is like 400k dps? Its far from perfect button mashing which leads to energy problems.

[keqe]

Before 7.2.5 if you used a non BoC TP it was a dps loss. There was never energy issues doing "max dps". I'm not 100% sure that remains true but this quote is blatantly false.

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Average of 94th percentile from the run last night and no energy issues at all.

In fact I'm hitting a dummy right now and have 0 energy issues, it's cutting it close but it's definitely not an issue. Would it be an issue if I stayed GCD capped the entire time? Yep, but that once again will require a non empowered TP which until I see otherwise still seems like a waste of energy to me. 13% haste FWIW.

Well I tested without shoulders now and I got until 52 seconds when I didn't have enough energy to use TP on global after BoS. This was with 13.24% haste. As close to yours as I could.

It is mathematical fact you will run out of energy. It is possible you have set your lag tolerance too low and you miss some milliseconds between globals.

It is true that at that haste% even a second of downtime will give you seconds of energy to spare. So on some bosses it won't show even with perfect play. But as you said with legendary shoulders being mandatory, so will be BoB with them as you waste their potential with energy issues.

[Tech614]

Play better and it will be an issue. 94 is like 400k dps? Its far from perfect button mashing which leads to energy problems.

94 with no consumables in normal run and I should play better? That was not a "I'm godlike" statement that was a "I'm not afk jerking off between globals" statement.

lol okay sure thing. I'm not that much of a try hard to care about trivial content like that.

[Deleted]

Because the previous version was "never equip" and this version is a dps increase only and far from must have, or must always equip. "mah ranks" are not the be all, end all for serious raiders.

New Brewmaster shoulders are pretty much guardian druids Luffa, on a high stat budget slot with really good stats on it.... they are going to be way too good. Are you going to run it on every progression fight? Probably not, but there are rarely more than 2 or 3 fights were you need to gear defensively anyway.

[Grobovshik]

New Brewmaster shoulders are pretty much guardian druids Luffa,

Im afraid we wont able to use it correctly because of energy starvation.

[ReD-EyeD]

I love running RJW and it actually helps with energy starvation emptiness. Not going back to Special Delivery, especially after that RJW buff. I like pressing my buttons.

[Tech614]

Im afraid we wont able to use it correctly because of energy starvation.

This makes no sense.

If energy is an issue the shoulders HELP with that as you don't immediately need to use a keg smash the second it's off cd to maintain the max number of possible keg smashes.

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I love running RJW and it actually helps with energy starvation emptiness. Not going back to Special Delivery, especially after that RJW buff. I like pressing my buttons.

I'm not sure on exact math but Nuizao is actually respectable now instead of needing some perfect scenario to be viable. It's also nice to actually have an on demand offensive cd.

[Langbardr]

Hey guys, I read you having issues with energy. I was at 15% haste during all the Nighthold tier and I never felt I was lacking of energy.

Do we have to look for 30% haste now ?

[ReD-EyeD]

I'm not sure on exact math but Nuizao is actually respectable now instead of needing some perfect scenario to be viable. It's also nice to actually have an on demand offensive cd.

Depending on a situation. 45 seconds of Nuizao is actually hard to utilize properly unless we're talking about some pretty straightforward tank-and-spank raid boss. Even without the math I'm pretty sure Nuizao would be better dps-wise where it can be used, but RJW pulls ahead in aoe (or even 2-3 cleave) situations and it's just so damn convenient. It's like playing prot paladin without Consecration or blood dk without DnD, just simply feels wrong. At least for me.

[Tech614]

Depending on a situation. 45 seconds of Nuizao is actually hard to utilize properly unless we're talking about some pretty straightforward tank-and-spank raid boss. Even without the math I'm pretty sure Nuizao would be better dps-wise where it can be used, but RJW pulls ahead in aoe (or even 2-3 cleave) situations and it's just so damn convenient. It's like playing prot paladin without Consecration or blood dk without DnD, just simply feels wrong. At least for me.

I'm not so sure RJW is ahead of Mr OX in aoe, and RJW certainly is not ahead of SD in aoe.

Overall I still see very little value in taking RJW. It's still just a QoL ability with very little raw power behind it.

[ReD-EyeD]

I'm not so sure RJW is ahead of Mr OX in aoe, and RJW certainly is not ahead of SD in aoe.

Overall I still see very little value in taking RJW. It's still just a QoL ability with very little raw power behind it.

Just simmed my own character (913ilvl, troll, 18% haste, 37% crit) and it shows 379k dps for RJW vs 373k dps for Nuizao on 300 seconds fight (2 Nuizao uses). But I have horrible relics so with good ones the difference will be even closer to each other.

[keqe]

This makes no sense.

If energy is an issue the shoulders HELP with that as you don't immediately need to use a keg smash the second it's off cd to maintain the max number of possible keg smashes.

So you would think. That is what I thought too. But the core of us is to keep BoS on CD now right? So if you don't have energy for KS with shoulders you just wait 1s for BoS. Well if you do that you end up with a situation where BoS comes out of CD and Keg Smash reaches 2 charges at the same time. So you will miss either BoS use or KS recharge.

https://gfycat.com/BeneficialWellgroomedIslandcanary

As you see here at start I skip using keg smash because of energy and instead wait for BoS CD. All is fine until next cycle and BoS and KS come out of CD at around the same time. 13% haste for testing.

You can't use the both Keg smashes quickly earlier to gain buffer because of energy too.

So you will lose value from shoulders because of energy issues.