8/28 BiS List Frost + UH with Trinket Section. All sources

[Piz813]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=166430616

please note it was pointed out the spread sheet is off with the Haste column, it needs to be fixed later today... but here is something. The BiS list is all MYTHIC RAID GEAR- stuff most of us won't see for weeks/months. So use with a grain of salt. Figures out what off piece to use with 4 piece T19.

Best part is the Trinket section. UH BiS trinkets are the stat sticks. Dark Moon Card upgraded is real good too so IMO save for that instead of the 250k Dalaran leveling ring ( I replaced my ring on beta 3 days after hitting 110)

WF, Sockets, and Oranges change things up to individual players depending on what you get to drop for you.

my 0.02

[Dracovian]

Where are those people saying Frost was only 1-2% behind Unholy now? This is why numbers, not wishful thinking is what you use to make arguments.

[Freedom]

Goddamn it, I had thought that the Darkmoon card was going to suck this time around, but if it isn't... I may want to level my warr week 1 for profs. Get those CDs rolling.

Also goddamnit those stat weights. If they are right, UH looks like it will scale better than Frost... again. And I am not sure why crit is #1 for UH and haste is #1 for frost on that spreadsheet.

But hey, at least the difference between trinkets is no longer absolutely monstrous.

Thanks for the link.

[FluFF]

Where are those people saying Frost was only 1-2% behind Unholy now? This is why numbers, not wishful thinking is what you use to make arguments.

Numbers 98% of anyone here won't even reach for weeks if not months like stated, its in full mythic gear....
This has no reflection on anything else except hardcore progression/guilds, something that a whopping 2% of the total player base is a part of.

[Piz813]

Numbers 98% of anyone here won't even reach for weeks if not months like stated, its in full mythic gear....
This has no reflection on anything else except hardcore progression/guilds, something that a whopping 2% of the total player base is a part of.

^^
This.

I know the stat weights are off but at least there is a list that people ask for daily. Use as a TOOL or guideline, not the DK Bible!

Remember, the Mythic Archie sword was BiS for most plate wearers. Most plate wearers didn't kill M Archie till 400+ wipes BUT killed Fel Lord and Tyrant weekly. So the axe or mace would be your BiS weapon cause you can OBTAIN IT. Unless you are me and it took 14 weeks of Fel Lord and wasted bonus rolls to see a axe drop. Fourteen fucking weeks.

Like I said, use this sheet for the trinket section and figure out what world boss or Mythic 5 man you need to do first. As always, your DPS will reflect the spec YOU like to play the best and have a passion for. So a hardcore Frost DK will excel in Normal and Heroic Emerald Nightmare and do better then if he/she/xe/xer/w/e went UH for this "tool kit" everyone talks about.

[Deleted]

our bis trinket from emreald nightmare is a tank trinket? icy veins says can be looted by the tank specs not dps ones.
im right that higher listed are betetr then ones beneath it in the blue text?

[Piz813]

our bis trinket from emreald nightmare is a tank trinket? icy veins says can be looted by the tank specs not dps ones.

Set your loot to blood and hope for the best on a bonus roll :-) just like the anzu cursed plume

[Dracovian]

Numbers 98% of anyone here won't even reach for weeks if not months like stated, its in full mythic gear....
This has no reflection on anything else except hardcore progression/guilds, something that a whopping 2% of the total player base is a part of.

Those numbers reflect class scaling and ceiling. It's irrelevant if players will reach the ceiling or not.

[Freedom]

Like I said, use this sheet for the trinket section and figure out what world boss or Mythic 5 man you need to do first. As always, your DPS will reflect the spec YOU like to play the best and have a passion for. So a hardcore Frost DK will excel in Normal and Heroic Emerald Nightmare and do better then if he/she/xe/xer/w/e went UH for this "tool kit" everyone talks about.

There's tool kits, then... there's just raw numbers. I knew there was a gap between Frost and UH, but... that 30k gap is a 13% difference in DPS, Mythic gear besides trinkets or not. That's a LOT. Way more than SMF vs TG was for Fury in T14 of MoP, and even then, I played as SMF while liking TG's visuals and HP pool better initially.

In WoD, M HFC simcraft had the gap as 9k DPS out of UH's 119k, or 7.5% difference, so it's actually worse if this sim is right. So unless the sims are flawed, or the raid trinkets favor Frost way over UH, which I doubt they do given the posted stat weights... this doesn't look good.

While I may be starting out as Frost, since I don't 100% hate UH like some F DKs here(probably because I didn't just get done with 14 months of HFC w/UH...), I'll definitely be putting points into Apocalypse at some point. Possibly even right after 35/54 in my Frost artifact.

Question: do you know if these results include any legendaries?

[Dracovian]

As always, your DPS will reflect the spec YOU like to play the best and have a passion for. So a hardcore Frost DK will excel in Normal and Heroic Emerald Nightmare and do better then if he/she/xe/xer/w/e went UH for this "tool kit" everyone talks about.

In Frost's case this does not apply. The gap between Unholy and Frost is currently exorbitant. Stop with this wishful thinking nonsense. Stop misleading players who are still choosing. If they want to play Frost that's perfectly fine but they should be aware Unholy players will flat out outperform them for a fraction of the effort. What are you gonna say when they find this out after investing all their AP into Frost? "Oh well, fun is all that matters right? Who cares if you are barely above tank dps?"

[Freedom]

In Frost's case this does not apply. The gap between Unholy and Frost is currently exorbitant. Stop with this wishful thinking nonsense. Stop misleading players who are still choosing. If they want to play Frost that's perfectly fine but they should be aware Unholy players will flat out outperform them for a fraction of the effort. What are you gonna say when they find this out after investing all their AP into Frost? "Oh well, fun is all that matters right? Who cares if you are barely above tank dps?"

Exactly. I like dual wielding, 1 handed swords, and wielding a piece of Frostmourne a lot. I don't like it thirteen fucking percent more a lot, though. Not when UH is no longer this mystery spec walled off from me trying out by lack of triple spec.

I have the luxury of being in a guild where I can play Frost, but given UH feels better in PVP too, I may just "knuckle under" at the last minute and go UH. If I want to dual wield 1 handers and do good DPS, I can play my Enchance shaman, even if they can't use swords. Shit, maybe even level my bank alt Rogue as Outlaw.

[Acidbaron]

In Frost's case this does not apply. The gap between Unholy and Frost is currently exorbitant. Stop with this wishful thinking nonsense. Stop misleading players who are still choosing. If they want to play Frost that's perfectly fine but they should be aware Unholy players will flat out outperform them for a fraction of the effort. What are you gonna say when they find this out after investing all their AP into Frost? "Oh well, fun is all that matters right? Who cares if you are barely above tank dps?"

You may be discontent with the current development but to state one spec out performing the other and it merely requires a fraction of an effort of a frost player is just incorrect. Neither spec is more incredibly difficult then the other.


Also as stated in the OP and i don't know why it's been posted already, the haste column has to be corrected. Few things why i dislike this list already being posted, we don't know what talent setup was used, mastery seems fairly a good chunk lower than crit and haste meaning it's a sim done with castigator and not CS, while ideally you want two lists or at least a mention of what was used.

Be smart and read this list as a list of items with an incorrect order if one value is off.

Our BiS trinkets being stat sticks is just horribly dull and boring.

[Gemini Soul]

Our BiS trinkets being stat sticks is just horribly dull and boring.

100% agree, my personal preference for trinkets has always been 1 passive proc and 1 on use.

[Deleted]

as far i see teh trinkets from nightmare have all a proc or on use, and guess the tank one is bis due the large amount of strength even though effect inst that great.

[igmo]

Set your loot to blood and hope for the best on a bonus roll :-) just like the anzu cursed plume

Using the wrong loot spec if you don't have the legendary you want is risky.

[Freedom]

I just took another deeper look at the spreadsheet beyond numbers... and I have to ask.

What is this???

The Unholy shoulders obviously don't have the effect accounted for, given they are listed as BELOW a drop from Nighthold, which can't be right with their effect, and higher ilvl as well. To boot, the Unholy legendaries show up on the Frost portion of the spreadsheet... and like Acidbaron said, they don't indicate CS vs Castigator, or what talent spec was used.

I'm not trusting what this thing says, even if it is listed as a resource in Acherus discord. Not until another pass is made. Certainly not for deciding UH vs Frost.

[Gemini Soul]

I just took another deeper look at the spreadsheet beyond numbers... and I have to ask.

What is this???

The Unholy shoulders obviously don't have the effect accounted for, given they are listed as BELOW a drop from Nighthold, which can't be right with their effect, and higher ilvl as well. To boot, the Unholy legendaries show up on the Frost portion of the spreadsheet... and like Acidbaron said, they don't indicate CS vs Castigator, or what talent spec was used.

I'm not trusting what this thing says, even if it is listed as a resource in Acherus discord. Not until another pass is made. Certainly not for deciding UH vs Frost.

It's just a list of gear showing point values total per piece based on the scale, also need to keep in mind that in the raid section the mythic teir stuff is 890ilvl while Legendary are only 895. That 5ilvl point difference can be explained by a better itemized piece with Strength closer in value to the specs best stats. It's also a WIP.

[Piz813]

I'm with you guys. Rather dw shards of frostmourne then a sword I never heard of in the lore till now. I look at my arthas figure everyday on my desk :-) but as one mentioned 13% is a huge gap and I'm in a mythic guild. So my choice is clear. Was really done with a pet to lug around too... see if any changes happen before raid opens.
On beta I got 14 traits as frost then a few days later 14 as UH. Getting the second weapon up didn't take too long and I switched back and forth and tested everything. Still have more fun as frost but UH is cool too with zombies and shit

[Freedom]

I'm with you guys. Rather dw shards of frostmourne then a sword I never heard of in the lore till now. I look at my arthas figure everyday on my desk :-) but as one mentioned 13% is a huge gap and I'm in a mythic guild. So my choice is clear. Was really done with a pet to lug around too... see if any changes happen before raid opens.
On beta I got 14 traits as frost then a few days later 14 as UH. Getting the second weapon up didn't take too long and I switched back and forth and tested everything. Still have more fun as frost but UH is cool too with zombies and shit

How many points did you have in your Blood artifact at the same time as having 14 in DPS artifacts? Any? I will be tanking at some point, and even if I wasn't, I love soloing, and spamming random Heroics as a tank and maximizing DPS/efficiency, so I would be leveling it as my OS regardless of MS choice.

[-Skye]

How are there no solid numbers yet? I'm switching to DK and while I do find frost more fun. 30k is too big of a difference for me to ignore from a raiding perspective. When could we expect to know just which will we be better? Or am I missing something? It's weird going from a class which only has 1 dps spec to a class which has 2 :P