Killing Deathwing weakened the Aspects, but killing Malygos didn't?

[Koryn123]

Who then decided to hoard all the magic. Even a quest talks about what Malygos was doing with the Nexus in a way that would create another Outland. Not to mention Malygos decided to force a red dragon to be his new consort after we kill the other one. Weather Malygos liked it or not Magic is needed on Azeroth to defend against internal and external threats.

"Every time I leave these sharp knives out, people cut themselves, so from now on, I will put the knives in a secure place, and only allow knives to a select few individuals I deem trustworthy. Their un-regulated use results in negative outcomes a lot, so I'll keep them someplace secure, and if someone wants to use a knife, they can come to me and I'll decide if they can be trusted to use them wisely."

Malygos had mortals join him, and allowed them use of magic. He hoarded magic and allowed people to use it if they understood that he'd have his eye on them and wouldn't let them abuse it to the point of catastrophe.

Yes, he did go mad because of what Deathwing did to his flight. You would think by your logic he would absolutely hate the Black Dragonflight and try and launch an all out war against them.

Unlike most characters in the Warcraft universe, Malygos put his duty over his own personal vendettas.

Which was caused by the Highborne and not all Night Elves were even doing such a thing. Not even all mortals were even involved in such a thing. It doesn't justify Malygos's actions like at all. Reacting extremely to an extreme situation does not work and it never will.

It's one example of what happens when just anyone can tap into magic and use it for whatever they want, whenever they want. Malygos couldn't just pick and choose who could use magic and who couldn't. If some mortals were going to use it for purposes that would result in cataclysmic outcomes, then he thought for the greater good, it must be taken away from everyone, except his own mage-hunter collaborators who joined him at the Nexus.

Which is no longer true. The Legion keeps coming back to Azeroth not just because of the power, it's because of the titan soul within the planet. The Council of Tirisfal was pretty much fine until Medivh's mother Aegwynn decided to take things into her own hands and take all of the Guardian's power.

Yes, because now they know about the titan soul, and they know that Azeroth is not destroyed. The humans' reckless use of magic was what tipped them off. Yes, the Council of Tirisfal worked until Aegwynn, that's not in question. The problem is that they just slapped a bandaid solution on, rather than try to fix the problem at its source: the fact that they were practically waving a big sign and shouting through a bullhorn through the Twisting Nether saying "HEY, BURNING LEGION, WE'RE STILL HERE AND STILL HAVE MAGIC, COME AND GET US!!!"

If they hadn't been shining the Legion-equivalent of the Bat-Signal into the Twisting Nether sky, the Legion would never have returned.

Because of Sargeras's plan and fooling Aegwynn and while it is her fault. Nobody would really know so it cannot blame all of mortal kind on what lead to the Old Horde invasion leading up to the first war. There isn't any justification for it.

How many bad eggs would you accept before you concluded that the group was just too unpredictable, and you couldn't predict who would cause problems and who would be fine? To Malygos, they're all just foolish mortals with no mind for caution or responsibility.

Not nearly as reckless as you make it out to be, same with Malygos. He decided to hoard all the magic which is kinda selfish if you ask me. Even more the Chronicle retcon Norgannon did make a point to not hoard magic as he was doing in Wrath with his base The Nexus. Taking all magic away from mortals because of specific individuals who *spoiled the bunch*. That's unfair and it's just as unfair as blaming Arthas on all of the Alliance for not trying to rein him in.

If you can't possibly prevent the catastrophic disasters while the people have free access to magic, then the logical course of action is to take the magic away, and then dole it out only to those you deem trustworthy.

Which happened a long time ago and when a threat that involves taking away Magic, well it's reasonable to ask the Blood Elves since they still love it as much as the humans if not more. Yeah what happened to Kael'thas was bad but being stubborn and not helping the Kirin Tor would only screw their own people over.

Wasn't saying it didn't concern them, just that the Kirin Tor is reckless and leaps before they look, jumping into Northrend and then being like "oh no, looks like we bit off more than we could chew, so let's send someone crawling to the Blood Elves for help because Quel'thalas is always our go-to whenever we're in a bind and need a favor we'll never repay or take into account the next time someone accuses them of treachery and we all immediately believe and are happy to slaughter and imprison them."

Too bad Blizzard has forgotten that you need to convince the player that they have a good reason to forget all of MoP and be the Kirin Tor's dogs working for treats. Now they make the Blood Elves happy to be the Kirin Tor's sidekicks purely for the right to stand in the same room as humans. Before, at least they had the Kirin Tor needed them more than the Blood Elves needed the Kirin Tor going for them. Now it's literally just the Blood Elves preferring being second-class citizens who are hated rather than be respected magi of Quel'thalas where they'd be honored and their contributions to society valued.

The very least the Kirin Tor could do during WotLK is say "sorry for Ansirem and Modera doing nothing to help their fellow council-member Kael'thas, because they're more loyal to humans from a foreign nation than an elf who's served dutifully on the ruling council of their city for a very long time, prince of the kingdom that made all of this possible." And again in Legion, but Blizzard is saying that the Kirin Tor are in the right for unjustly purging a single ethnic group of their city for the actions of one, and Aethas and the Sunreavers and Horde are the ones who have to come crawling to beg them permission to be in their city again. And they have the nerve to make Ansirem (one of the two who completely abandoned Kael'thas and the most noble and powerful of his people he brought solely to help them) say "how do we know he won't just betray us again". Jaina, daughter of the admiral of Kul Tiras, who lived in Dalaran no more than 10 years if we're being generous saying that the Kirin Tor take apprentices who are very young children and thus haven't even mastered their reading and mathmatics, before she ran away to found Theramore, came back after like 10 years and called it "her" city, but doesn't consider it as being the city of people who've lived and worked with the humans there since before her grandfather was a glint in his old man's eye. She even says that some of the Blood Elves there are among those who taught humans magic in the first place. But yeah, it's totally her city more than theirs. She's like Harry Potter considering Hogwarts his home, only being very very aggressive about it.

Because Malygos had no right to take it away from mortals and hoard it like a selfish asshole as I already explained. If anything Magic helps the mortal races be self reliant instead of just having the Dragons and Keepers protect Azeroth.

"I believe that you will find that my gift to you is not just a profound duty—which it is—but also a delight—which it is! Magic must be regulated, managed, and controlled. But it must also be appreciated and valued and not hoarded. Such is the contradiction you must deal with. May you be dutiful ... and joyous both."

Malygos violated the hoarding in the process of regulating and controlling its use. Before the Nexus War, magic was completely unpoliced. There was nobody looking out to make sure it wasn't being abused. He had no choice. Magic was not appreciated by everyone. They took it for granted. The Kirin Tor hoard every magical artifact they get their hands on. The Reliquary USE magical artifacts they find, rather than letting them mold in a museum. Malygos did what he had to to do his Titan-given duty.

Because Malygos was being stupid and shortsighted thinking to blame all of mortal kind for some reckless acts of a few. It's stupid.

It's not stupid and shortsighted when it's the only option one has to accomplish their duty, because there's no way they can police the use of magic of so many people, millions/billions, while the Blues are so few, without forcibly taking it from everyone, at least temporarily, before returning it only to those trustworthy enough to use it responsibly.

Analogy doesn't work since morality in the Warcraft universe is different then in the modern real world so stop.

K, Blizzard presents the story through modern morality, like making everyone appalled that they've actually won a crushing victory because winning a war while not having to write any condolence letters home to the grieving widows and children of your troops is totally evil, but w/e.

If they were presenting things with medieval morality, you wouldn't see anyone working with anyone. Every race would always see each other as savages, and would use their superior technology/magic to enslave them. They wouldn't see members of the other team as people. They'd see them as beasts, no better than cattle, and consider it their divine right and duty to "educate" them, and they'd do this by destroying their culture and using them for manual labor, prostitution, gladiatorial combat (to the death between two people, not Thrall's kiddy-hand gladiator matches in Durnholde, where he only killed animals Blackmoore pitted against him) for the amusement of the privileged few.

If it were medieval morality, Jaina would never have been leader of the Council of Six. After her father died, she'd be left destitute unless she could find a man who'd marry her, despite getting no dowry. Or she'd be some barmaid in Goldshire, fetching drinks and mopping floors. Or worse.

It's not weird, it's how you see things that is weird acting like poor old Malygos was only trying to do what's right.

It's not weird that Alexstrasza considers her duty above that of her brother, but only when it's her brother killing mortals who refuse to accept his lawful right to fulfill his duty as given by Norgannon? Not when, say, Garrosh leads a slaughter through Ashenvale? Or Arthas purges Stratholme? She doesn't seem to care about preventing loss of life when it's the Horde and Alliance killing each other over petty issues like "oh, they're probably gonna get that ogre artifact and use it against us, so we have to go get it first and use it against them!" Or "man, we REALLY need farmland, so we should make a land grab for Andorhal. It's not like we have farmland any closer, only occupied by gnolls, murlocs, and bandits. *completely ignores Westfall* Nope, we need to destroy not one, but TWO massive deadly undead armies to get our farmland."

I'm not saying Malygos was doing what is right, because "right" is a subjective term. To him, it was the only thing he could do. To the mortal races, it was wrong of him, but only because they enjoy the comforts and conveniences offered by the Arcane.

If the Amani trolls were being decimated by the elves, or some other group that relies heavily on magic, and knew what was going on in the Nexus War business, they'd see Malygos' decision as "right."

Malygos was doing what he thought best for Azeroth, because evidence proved that the free use of magic by the mortal races resulted in chaos and devastation, every time.

Alexstrasza was doing what she thought was right when her duty is to protect life. The thing is, she apparently doesn't find her duty important enough to enforce all the time.

Really though Malygos in the end became something he and his fellow dragons fought against.

Eh. The only reason Alexstrasza sided with us is because we're the players and thus the protagonists of the story. If Malygos was killing all murlocs, gnolls, and kobolds because they were abusing magic, nobody would bat an eye.

[Solonar]

TLDR: Malygos was completely in his right mind and acting as the Aspect of Magic during WotLK, policing its use and judging the mortal races too reckless to use it anymore. Like a kid who won't stop putting the end of sticks into a campfire and then waving it all around in the woods being told they can't put sticks into the fire anymore, because they can't be trusted to act responsibly with it.

Sure he was. Because redirecting all the power from the leylines to the Nexus, potentially destroying the world (by turning it into another Outland, it was already causing earthquakes), forcing a red dragon to be his new consort and punishing all mages on Azeroth not sworn to his Dragonflight is completely sane. Yes, he was the Guardian of Magic and the rest of his Flight oversaw magic as well - many agreeing but they only really agreed because Arcane magic breeds arrogance and Malygos was a revered leader, like the Aspects were for all flights.

Alexstrasza came into conflict with Malygos because he was stepping on "her" territory by killing innocents. You mention Aegwynn, the Highborne of old, the humans of Dalaran, Medivh and what-not but not all of the mages are responsible for those events and Malygos was killing them just as much, besieging Dalaran where there were just as many completely uninvolved and innocent as well. Alexstrasza stands for Life, she's its protector. She's also not blind and short-sighted. Malygos even went so far as to attack the Wyrmrest Temple, which stood as a symbol for all the Dragon Aspects and neutral ground for all Flights - the only other one that had the balls to attack it was Deathwing. Even Nalice, another Black Dragon that later ends up dead by Wrathion's behest was there, not attacking anybody despite having dark motives or being corrupt like daddy D.

I must use the words of Yu-Lon here, which is something I feel Alexstrasza goes by in regards to all the killing that goes on.
"True wisdom comes from knowing what is right and doing nothing at all."

Malygos was note sane. He wasn't lethargic, he was roused from a depression but by no means was he sane.
-Kills innocent mages because "mortals can't be trusted with magic"
-Attacks the Wyrmrest Temple, neutral ground for all dragons
-Used the Surge Needles to draw power to the Nexus, causing damage to the world around
-Forcing a Red Dragon to be his new consort by overriding her will, or trying to
-Using the power of the Nexus to magically alter the eggs all around it (this is some Deathwing-tier experimentation)
-Focuses on Dalaran and the Kirin Tor instead of focusing on the Scourge, which is what we were trying to do

[Koryn123]

Sure he was. Because redirecting all the power from the leylines to the Nexus, potentially destroying the world (by turning it into another Outland, it was already causing earthquakes), forcing a red dragon to be his new consort and punishing all mages on Azeroth not sworn to his Dragonflight is completely sane. Yes, he was the Guardian of Magic and the rest of his Flight oversaw magic as well - many agreeing but they only really agreed because Arcane magic breeds arrogance and Malygos was a revered leader, like the Aspects were for all flights.

Alexstrasza came into conflict with Malygos because he was stepping on "her" territory by killing innocents. You mention Aegwynn, the Highborne of old, the humans of Dalaran, Medivh and what-not but not all of the mages are responsible for those events and Malygos was killing them just as much, besieging Dalaran where there were just as many completely uninvolved and innocent as well. Alexstrasza stands for Life, she's its protector. She's also not blind and short-sighted. Malygos even went so far as to attack the Wyrmrest Temple, which stood as a symbol for all the Dragon Aspects and neutral ground for all Flights - the only other one that had the balls to attack it was Deathwing. Even Nalice, another Black Dragon that later ends up dead by Wrathion's behest was there, not attacking anybody despite having dark motives or being corrupt like daddy D.

I must use the words of Yu-Lon here, which is something I feel Alexstrasza goes by in regards to all the killing that goes on.
"True wisdom comes from knowing what is right and doing nothing at all."

Malygos was note sane. He wasn't lethargic, he was roused from a depression but by no means was he sane.
-Kills innocent mages because "mortals can't be trusted with magic"
-Attacks the Wyrmrest Temple, neutral ground for all dragons
-Used the Surge Needles to draw power to the Nexus, causing damage to the world around
-Forcing a Red Dragon to be his new consort by overriding her will, or trying to
-Using the power of the Nexus to magically alter the eggs all around it (this is some Deathwing-tier experimentation)
-Focuses on Dalaran and the Kirin Tor instead of focusing on the Scourge, which is what we were trying to do

What you don't understand is that the dragons see the mortal races the way we see insects. Their lives are unbelievably short compared to ours. Their power is miniscule. They're an annoyance that we step on, swat, or otherwise exterminate without mercy or any kind of remorse. We just don't care about them nearly as much as we do our fellow humans. We might say "oh, a bug" if they're just going about their business outside while we walk passed a spiderweb, but if say, we're taking down a picket fence that happens to have a spiderweb attached to one of the panels, we destroy its home without a second thought because it got in our way.

Malygos turned that red dragon into his consort because she MURDERED one of his consorts. He was punishing her for a wrong she committed against him.

Yeah, I'm sure all the numberless innocent dead would take great comfort in Yu'lon's advice, like how they always intended to let Garrosh go, which resulted in WoD, with a renewed orc invasion into Azeroth and a lot of dead Azerothian troops sent to Draenor. It all could have been avoided if the Celestials had an ounce of sense.


Sure, Alexstrasza uses that tactic for the mortals slaughtering each other in the millions, but she's all for action when it's Malygos killing mortals who refuse to give up magic. It's like a police standoff with a shooter. Both have guns. Police say "drop the gun," and the shooter refuses and fires at them. The Police shoot him dead, because he refused to cooperate. Then gun-control comes in. The only difference is that Malygos actually has the power to keep magic out of the hands of EVERYONE who would abuse the power, unlike real life governments who can never stop criminals from getting their hands on guns, only stop good people from having guns, so the criminals are now the only ones with the guns.


All that "I'm going to do nothing" nonsense only works when you're faced with an impossible enemy, so the smart thing to do is run or surrender to fight another day, rather than fight now and all die for nothing. The Alliance might enjoy spouting that off to convince their citizens to give a little more taxes, going on about how their sons/husbands died/will die with honor, but the Horde are never so foolish. If Sylvanas embodied the ideals of the Alliance, she'd have stayed at the Broken Shore and fought to the last man, and the Horde would be shattered without the greater part of its leaders. Lor'themar and Gallywix wouldn't have been very relatable to the Horde's citizens.

If there's no way of avoiding the enemy, stay and fight and give them hell, as Varian did when the infernal prevented their escape. If there's a possible escape from the insurmountable foe, take it, and regroup, as Sylvanas did, and Genn after Varian saved the airship.



In the Celestial's case, it worked great with the pandas slowly building their strength and training their monks to overthrow the Mogu Empire when they had the skill and manpower to make it happen, but with Garrosh, it was completely unnecessary and idiotic. And all for nothing, because Garrosh squandered his second chance by orchestrating the formation of the Iron Horde.


If we're looking at things from a completely objective and unbiased viewpoint, Alexstrasza's duty to protect life is no more or less important than Malygos' duty to moderate and keep the use of arcane magic under control. Both are a Titan-given task, and both Aspects would see them through.


--He attacked Dalaran because it was a major hub of mortal magi on Azeroth, possibly the center of arcane magic for the mortal races, as Blizzard seems to have forgotten all about Silvermoon.
--He attacked Wyrmrest Temple because the Red's declared war on them when Alexstrasza got in the way of his duty he would see through to the end.
--Causing damage to the planet is a big one, but drawing the mana into the Nexus was the only way he saw to prevent the mortal races from using it. Dalaran and Quel'thalas certainly wouldn't stop if he didn't force them to.
--He made that Red his consort because she murdered his mate. It's brutal and not nice of him, but she wasn't innocent.
--He was focused on protecting magic. To him, the Scourge were just another group of little creatures that couldn't touch him. He may have underestimated them, but never had any close contact. They were out to destroy all Life, so that's why the Red's were so up for fighting the Scourge, even though they never did anything outside the Dragonblight, even after dealing with Malygos.

[Arthas242]

*technically we never killed malygos* he just fell and got lost in the nexus....

soooooooooooo you never know with setbacks and all.........

[steelballfc]

*technically we never killed malygos* he just fell and got lost in the nexus....

soooooooooooo you never know with setbacks and all.........

*reading*
* looking at kael'thas*

[Bathory]

According to the end of Cataclysm (which didn't really make a lot of sense), the reason they lost their powers wasn't any sacrifice, it was that "their ancient purpose had been fulfilled." This implies that Tyr somehow foresaw the Hour of Twilight, and granted them their power for the sole purpose of stopping it, rather than guarding Azeroth from all kinds of threats. However since they'd now done what they were granted their power for, it seemed to sort of expire. Chronicle would have been a good time to retcon this, but they didn't, which makes the line even stranger.

I always took it as the Aspects were gifted their powers with an * of "if they ever used those powers against one another, they would have their abilities removed, as their purpose had deviated greatly from their original task"

[Esandarius]

I'm going to have to agree with squirtle on this one. They definitely said that their ultimate purpose was to stop Deathwing when he goes mad, and once that purpose was fulfilled, they would no longer be blessed with titan magic.

But I think what both sides seem to be arguing is the same point. Their destiny was to defeat Deathwing, that was their purpose. They were always meant to pour their essence into the Dragon Soul, so the act of channeling their powers to the weapon is in fact fulfilling their destiny set in action by Tyr thousands of years ago.

TLRD: Fulfilling their destiny = channeling their essence into the Dragon Soul. Both are adequate explanations because both are the same thing said differently.

Their purpose was to stop Deathwing? Why would they be empowered by the titans in the first place? If they weren't empowered there would be no Deathwing to stop. That doesn't make any sense.

[Aquamonkey]

Alexstrasza states that the Aspects' "great purpose" has been fulfilled. However, the titans empowered the Aspects to watch over Azeroth and not to just stop Deathwing's second Cataclysm. Since Aman'Thul gifted Nozdormu with his powers over time, it's possible he predicted Deathwing's ultimate corruption, but that doesn't explain why the Aspects would be like "alright, job's done, vacation time" when there's still other threats to consider (N'Zoth and the Burning Legion, for example). Is this a retcon or are we missing something?
Aman'Thul, the wise leader of the titan Pantheon, had seen in a vision that the Old Gods would one day cause a catastrophe with the potential to wipe out all life on Azeroth. He and a few members of the Pantheon empowered the five Dragon Aspects with the ultimate goal of averting this single catastrophe, this Hour of Twilight, though they strove to defend Azeroth whenever a suitably apocalyptic threat emerged. Despite Aman'Thul's vast powers, however, he was not omniscient: neither he, nor any of the other titans or Aspects knew that Neltharion the Earth-Warder would become a pawn of the Old Gods and the herald of the apocalypse. However, following the War of the Ancients and Neltharion's betrayal, Nozdormu received another vision of the future that made it clear that their own brother would be the Hour of Twilight's harbinger. The titans bestowed upon all five Aspects enough power to avert the apocalypse, and by turning one of the Aspects to their side, the Old Gods believed this would make their ultimate plan foolproof. (AskCDev3)

[Koryn123]

Alexstrasza states that the Aspects' "great purpose" has been fulfilled. However, the titans empowered the Aspects to watch over Azeroth and not to just stop Deathwing's second Cataclysm. Since Aman'Thul gifted Nozdormu with his powers over time, it's possible he predicted Deathwing's ultimate corruption, but that doesn't explain why the Aspects would be like "alright, job's done, vacation time" when there's still other threats to consider (N'Zoth and the Burning Legion, for example). Is this a retcon or are we missing something?
Aman'Thul, the wise leader of the titan Pantheon, had seen in a vision that the Old Gods would one day cause a catastrophe with the potential to wipe out all life on Azeroth. He and a few members of the Pantheon empowered the five Dragon Aspects with the ultimate goal of averting this single catastrophe, this Hour of Twilight, though they strove to defend Azeroth whenever a suitably apocalyptic threat emerged. Despite Aman'Thul's vast powers, however, he was not omniscient: neither he, nor any of the other titans or Aspects knew that Neltharion the Earth-Warder would become a pawn of the Old Gods and the herald of the apocalypse. However, following the War of the Ancients and Neltharion's betrayal, Nozdormu received another vision of the future that made it clear that their own brother would be the Hour of Twilight's harbinger. The titans bestowed upon all five Aspects enough power to avert the apocalypse, and by turning one of the Aspects to their side, the Old Gods believed this would make their ultimate plan foolproof. (AskCDev3)

Hmm. So Nozdormu can't really see the future or anything? Just the past? And can only travel to the future sometimes, when it suits the plot, like going to the End Time dungeon?

[Aucald]

Hmm. So Nozdormu can't really see the future or anything? Just the past? And can only travel to the future sometimes, when it suits the plot, like going to the End Time dungeon?

Law of conservation of story, really. Time travel capability is always a huge monkeywrench to toss into a narrative - overused or outright abused it ruins any story that it's not an absolute cornerstone of. Nozdormu can't see or do everything in a temporally transcendent sense or else there'd be no need for the player characters at all (even though by nature of his ability portfolio he *should* be able to do all of that). So Nozdormu naturally has to be limited by external forces, or he has to be used so sparingly so that weight of suspension of disbelief doesn't become too much to bear in general.

[Koryn123]

Law of conservation of story, really. Time travel capability is always a huge monkeywrench to toss into a narrative - overused or outright abused it ruins any story that it's not an absolute cornerstone of. Nozdormu can't see or do everything in a temporally transcendent sense or else there'd be no need for the player characters at all (even though by nature of his ability portfolio he *should* be able to do all of that). So Nozdormu naturally has to be limited by external forces, or he has to be used so sparingly so that weight of suspension of disbelief doesn't become too much to bear in general.

That's one of the biggest things I hate with Knaak's writing. He always uses such overpowered characters, but always, always, ALWAYS throws in a huge nerf to them. It's so frustrating because you just want them to do their normal thing and blow away all the bad guys. It's the opposite of the WoD cinematic trailer, where Gul'dan looked up and Garrosh's advanced goblin weaponry from the future was raining down on them. Gul'dan looked like some simple caveman seeing fire for the first time. Then they caught Mannoroth by surprise, because they had the OP knowledge from the future that Mannoroth was gonna corrupt the orcs.

All that was thrown out the window though when Blizzard said the whole one Legion for all realities thing, so that Mannoroth had already died in MU Azeroth, then for some reason was doing AU Draenor 30 years after he did MU Draenor, even though the only reason it's parallel with our time is because of Kairoz. It's just a big mess, and makes it significantly less cool, like "So...you just got back from being killed by Grom, and aren't the least bit cautious this time with another Grom?"

Anyhoo:

Sunwell Trilogy (even though it's my favorite WoW book and the first WoW lore I ever learned back when I was a plucky young lad who played human on dad's account cuz Horde is ugly so Horde must be the bad guys, but then read Sunwell Trilogy at school and fell in love with blood elf lore and made a BE paladin when I got my account in BC) - Those collars of Dar'Khan's that prevented Kalec from shapeshifting into his dragon form, because dragons are OP. Also Anveena turning out to be the Sunwell, but that was less bad because I felt like Dar'Khan had his run and had been sufficiently worn down by the other characters to be killed in the story.

War of the Ancients - Krasus' life force being divided between himself from the future, and his past self, so both were super weak, and surprise surprise, he couldn't change into his dragon form.

War of the Ancients - Krasus being hit with Deathwing's catch-all playground rules bad-RP trope curse that prevents him from saying, writing, or otherwise doing anything that in any way, shape, or form indicates to anyone his knowledge from the future that Deathwing is actually evil and is gonna massacre the Blue Dragonflight and drive the others away into hiding and cause them a ton of death and pain.

War of the Ancients - Cutting off the Well of Eternity from non-Legion-aligned people, so Illidan was suddenly super weak and Rhonin got to become the strongest mage in all of Azeroth for a few weeks, because he was from a time when magic wasn't saturating the air and you had to rely on your own strength. While Knaak explained it okay, it's still dumb because only went to make his self-insert seem cool.

Day of the Dragon - Krasus can't rescue Alexstrasza cuz orcs have Demon Soul. Rhonin gets tired and needs to stop for mana after like literally one fireball. Then he becomes the Raptor King? What?

Stormrage - Making Malfurion trapped in the Emerald Dream, and anything else that happened because this one was so dull to me that I literally couldn't go on after reading it halfway through and can't remember much else about it except that it was so boring.

Wolfheart - Everyone sucks except for Varian, and the worgen suck unless Varian is with them, and Varian is just as fast and just as if not more wolf-like than the worgen and just as if not more effective against the huge magnotaur.

Night of the Dragon - Vereesa's half-breed mutant demon-spawn are supposedly super powerful, when Knaak is trying to plant the seeds of keeping his characters alive, until Christie Golden kills them off. Vereesa travels alone to save them, and does, against Sinestra and all her minions. And Rhonin is apparently too busy to help until later, like it's something as simple as not being able to get off work until 6 PM so you're gonna meet your wife at the restaurant for your anniversary dinner. Then Rhonin shows up and is crap after a fireball or two again.

[Maxilian]

Not to mention they poured all of their power into the dragon soul, which then went back to where it came from.

Minis Deathwing

[Deleted]

According to the end of Cataclysm (which didn't really make a lot of sense), the reason they lost their powers wasn't any sacrifice, it was that "their ancient purpose had been fulfilled." This implies that Tyr somehow foresaw the Hour of Twilight, and granted them their power for the sole purpose of stopping it, rather than guarding Azeroth from all kinds of threats. However since they'd now done what they were granted their power for, it seemed to sort of expire. Chronicle would have been a good time to retcon this, but they didn't, which makes the line even stranger.

None of this makes sense. As what you're saying would imply that Tyr knew Neltharion was going to become Deathwing. Heck, of course he knew since Nozdormu was given power over the timelines. But why didn't they prevent the corruption of Neltharion if they knew it was going to happen?

Heck, why didn't Nozdormu know? He should've seen it coming. Then you can argue that he didn't act to safeguard the timelines, let things run its course, but then in Cataclysm he alters the timelines and brings back the Dragon Soul to defeat Deathwing? Really? Why not prevent this Hour of Twilight before it even starts? Damn.

Edit: And another thing. If Neltharion was the Earth-Warder, the watcher over the deep places of the world, that which brought him close to the domain of the Old Gods and susceptible to their corrupting whispers, shouldn't he also have been susceptible to the whispers of Azeroth, the Titan World-Soul? Because you know, she also resides in the very deep places of the world. Diamond King Magni is apparently more connected to the planet than the Earth-Warder himself? Doesn't make sense. I think Azeroth should've been able to counter the influence of the Old Gods with whispers of her own. Especially if they knew Deathwing would annihilate the entire planet's population and free the Old Gods. That would kind of make him super important, right? Why let him just fall to corruption like that?

[shoc]

Not to mention Deathwing had his entire skeleton and eventually all his scales with Elementium. That made him practically physically invulnerable.

[Aquamonkey]

Not to mention Deathwing had his entire skeleton and eventually all his scales with Elementium.

Are you sure you're not confusing him with Wolverine?

[Qualia]

None of this makes sense. As what you're saying would imply that Tyr knew Neltharion was going to become Deathwing. Heck, of course he knew since Nozdormu was given power over the timelines. But why didn't they prevent the corruption of Neltharion if they knew it was going to happen?

Heck, why didn't Nozdormu know? He should've seen it coming. Then you can argue that he didn't act to safeguard the timelines, let things run its course, but then in Cataclysm he alters the timelines and brings back the Dragon Soul to defeat Deathwing? Really? Why not prevent this Hour of Twilight before it even starts? Damn.

Edit: And another thing. If Neltharion was the Earth-Warder, the watcher over the deep places of the world, that which brought him close to the domain of the Old Gods and susceptible to their corrupting whispers, shouldn't he also have been susceptible to the whispers of Azeroth, the Titan World-Soul? Because you know, she also resides in the very deep places of the world. Diamond King Magni is apparently more connected to the planet than the Earth-Warder himself? Doesn't make sense. I think Azeroth should've been able to counter the influence of the Old Gods with whispers of her own. Especially if they knew Deathwing would annihilate the entire planet's population and free the Old Gods. That would kind of make him super important, right? Why let him just fall to corruption like that?

Pretty sure what Aquamonkey posted answered your concern. It kinda makes sense. To address your issues:
- Tyr, or the Pantheon didn't have any idea that Neltharion was going to become Deathwing. Apparently, Aman'thul couldn't see that far into the future. He only vaguely knew that the Old Gods would cause a catastrophe that can wipe out all life on Azeroth (the Cataclysm). He didn't know the details of how or who would cause it (so basically, as I take it, it was in the line of "Okay, so those Void creatures are going to cause a catastrophic event at this time, but I have no clue what would happen yet. Doesn't matter, I will just empower some creatures enough to prevent anything from happening. My Keepers approved of them, they must be trustworthy"). That's why the Pantheon empowered the Aspects to avert this Cataclysm without knowing that by doing so, they indirectly took part in causing it (since Deathwing wouldn't be who he was without the empowerment). Nozdormu only saw the details much later after WoTA event. As Blizzard put it, Aman'thul was powerful, but not omniscient (and definitely not omnipotent either).
- Nozdormu knew HoT was happening, he just didn't act with full power of his. It's probably an issue of conflict between choosing to safeguarding the pristine of the timelines vs violate it and prevent the HoT. Not modifying the timelines IS safeguarding the timelines - he did send his agents to investigate other timelines to see if there was a (natural?) way to prevent the HoT, after all. His job in regards to time was to keep it unchanged / unmodified by external force (i.e: the OGs, Murozond, etc.) - even if it was a crappy future. He didn't decide to bring the Dragon Soul back by himself - neither did that alter the timelines in plural (other than the main timeline - ours), that was others' idea. Nozdormu didn't even want to do it at first place as he thought it would have made him no different from Murozond, but Alexstraza (+ others, can't remember the details) convinced him to do it.
- Lastly, We don't know exactly when Azeroth was able to communicate with others. It's possible that she just started gaining (or regaining?) enough consciousness to do that.

[Deleted]

Why is this? Why did they have to sacrifice their powers to defeat Deathwing, wasn't the Dragon Soul enough? Why was this not necessary for Malygos?

Don't think about it. The whole plot doesn't make any sense. Why should the wise and powerful Titans empower the Aspects only for one single scheme of the old Gods, leaving Azeroth defenseless against everything that comes after that? Because preventing the Hour of Twilight maybe saved Azeroth, but the old Gods are still arround.

[mickybrighteyes]

did people forget about the time the demon soul was made? and all teh aspects were convinced by Neltharion to put a portion of their power into an object for ... reasons....

and then Neltharion decided SCREW YOU GUYS I HAVE THE POWER!!!

yeah... that happened and we did it again with the dragon soul.

[3DTyrant]

The Aspects didn't need to put all their powers into the Dragon Soul to take down Malygos, hell, only Alextraza intervened with our fight by getting her red dragons to help us from falling into who knows where.

[Mehrunes]

Pretty sure what Aquamonkey posted answered your concern. It kinda makes sense. To address your issues:
- Tyr, or the Pantheon didn't have any idea that Neltharion was going to become Deathwing. Apparently, Aman'thul couldn't see that far into the future. He only vaguely knew that the Old Gods would cause a catastrophe that can wipe out all life on Azeroth (the Cataclysm). He didn't know the details of how or who would cause it (so basically, as I take it, it was in the line of "Okay, so those Void creatures are going to cause a catastrophic event at this time, but I have no clue what would happen yet. Doesn't matter, I will just empower some creatures enough to prevent anything from happening. My Keepers approved of them, they must be trustworthy"). That's why the Pantheon empowered the Aspects to avert this Cataclysm without knowing that by doing so, they indirectly took part in causing it (since Deathwing wouldn't be who he was without the empowerment). Nozdormu only saw the details much later after WoTA event. As Blizzard put it, Aman'thul was powerful, but not omniscient (and definitely not omnipotent either).

And yet there is a giant impaled Deathwing in the background of Murozond's death, which is what the vision has shown. Not to mention even if the vision was blurry or whatever, even though Nozdormu's text after Murozond fight doesn't mention, there is still the issue of Nozdormu himself being corrupted. Yet no one stopped to think that if one Aspect can be corrupted by something others can be too. Then again this is still the part of 4.3 that makes the most sense. They'd need a Chronicle book dedicated just to this patch for it to make sense.